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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was not all that impressed because the car feels much stronger than it really is. The dyno was not a dynojet or anything fancy like that. It was at a speed shop for RWD cars. So when they strapped mine down to the dyno it wasnt pretty heh. They had straps going all over since there were no floor clamps to strap the front of the car to since my car was ont eh dyno backwards :) Since this is such a wierd dyno I am wondering fo the number could possibly be a hair off. The actual dyno owner says his dyno is 20% less power than a dynojet shows but I dont think I believe that since that would put me at over 255 whp. NOT LIKELY on a T3. OK here's the plot:


As you can see the power curve is pretty straight and smooth. The low end torque on this T3 is very impressive on the butt dyno. Its a very smooth power curve and I will be turning the boost up to 8.5-9 psi next time I go. But I have to get my extra fuel flowing before I try that so I can hook up to their wideband a/f and see how much boost I can push w/out going lean :D
 

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Nice. :) Why did you stop pressing at 6 k rpm? Way different than my power graph was at 6 psi. Big turbo makes power later but it pulls all the way. That must be very quick around the block performer tho.

Mici
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes Mici EVERYONE asks why I had them stop at 6k hehe. I told them to stop at 6500 because I know my turbo wont make much more power beyond that(restrictive T3). They stopped at 6500 on the stock tach but they couldnt run the dyno RPM from the my crank pulley since it was no room to get anywhere near the crank. So they hooked a aligator clip onto one of the spark plug wires to get the RPM's. Not the best way of doing it but it worked I guess.

So my peak power range is from 3500-5500 rpms. So why bother push the motor past 6k? That was my reasoning. But hopefully next time I can run 8 psi or more and try for 240 hp. They owe me a couple pulls anyway, cause I gave up half way thru my second pull at 7 psi because my FMU hose blew out and started spraying gas on my turbo :eek: So whenI get the car ready Im gonna try it again :tup: The onto hybrid power }) Im gonna try to get a .63/60 T04B hybrid turbo for next spring. DUN DUN DUN
 

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DrBrown said:
Yes Mici EVERYONE asks why I had them stop at 6k hehe. I told them to stop at 6500 because I know my turbo wont make much more power beyond that(restrictive T3). They stopped at 6500 on the stock tach but they couldnt run the dyno RPM from the my crank pulley since it was no room to get anywhere near the crank. So they hooked a aligator clip onto one of the spark plug wires to get the RPM's. Not the best way of doing it but it worked I guess.

So my peak power range is from 3500-5500 rpms. So why bother push the motor past 6k? That was my reasoning. But hopefully next time I can run 8 psi or more and try for 240 hp. They owe me a couple pulls anyway, cause I gave up half way thru my second pull at 7 psi because my FMU hose blew out and started spraying gas on my turbo :eek: So whenI get the car ready Im gonna try it again :tup: The onto hybrid power }) Im gonna try to get a .63/60 T04B hybrid turbo for next spring. DUN DUN DUN
significantly more torque at 2400 than stock ;) actually im sure mine resembles that dynograph as well, since im running the small turbo, midrange monster equation as well.

question are you still running vris? you have some wierd dips in there that, if youre NOT running the vris, i would attribute to some wierd fuel issues.

fuel spraying on the HOT turbo?!?!?! word! thats why my lines are run in the other direction :) i have the fpr and fmu near the firewall.

good pulls!

what are the numbers on your t3? mine definitely holds boost very well into the high ropms, but im running an .88 exhaust side... im sure its peaking somewhere below that as well, but should hold it a good bit into the revs so you can shift down into your peak again.

i can't wait to get dynod
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well my T3 is off a turbo-coupe T-bird. The specs are .48 exhaust and .60 compressor. So its not big by any means but I would recommend this turbo to just about anyone looking for a fun car to drive. Its all low end to midrange torque that throws you back in the seat. FUN FUN! It does feel MUCH stronger than the number indicate so I guess I will have to make another trip to a dynojet and compare. As far as vris, its been gutted and its not there. But FMU's suck monkey balls and I dont trust it as far as I can piss so it may get yanked out of there sometime.
 

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Congratulations. Although the numbers may not seem that high, that looks like a great drivers car.

I especially like that it starts pulling well before the 3000 mark, and your peak torque is just a little shy of a stock engine. It's a great feeling to pull away from other cars when you don't have to rev the engine and sound like you are trying.

On the other hand, it is very frustrating to feel your torque die as you march onto redline (aka, almost every mx-6).

The speed of the piston provides most of the stress on the internals not the force that it generates, so keeping the RPMs lower is probably much better for the engine.

I don't know if I would even bother going to a hybrid, but definitely put up another plot when you do. It will be a great comparison for those of us still deciding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As far as the comment by jdwk, Im pleased with the car more and more now that its 30* outside every day :D It pulls like a mother now at night time when it drops to 25 or lower. I am still waiting till after I get the 7th injector and intercooler bolted up before I make any decisions on a hybrid.

As for the dyno, they actually did call it a mustang dyno. What does that mean?? Cause I have heard people say that its not as accurate as a dynojet. But I dunno, I think the dyno was within 5-15 whp of being accurate if it was even off to begin with. It at least told me where my peak power was so I can take that info to the track :shrug:
 

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DrBrown said:

As for the dyno, they actually did call it a mustang dyno. What does that mean?? Cause I have heard people say that its not as accurate as a dynojet. But I dunno, I think the dyno was within 5-15 whp of being accurate if it was even off to begin with. It at least told me where my peak power was so I can take that info to the track :shrug:
A mustang Dyno is really a motorcycle dyno converted to a car dyno. From what i understand it is supposed to be more realistic numbers. because it makes calculations for friction and such stuff like that. THey tend to dyno 15-20% lower than the traditional dynojet. I would say dynojet wise you are very close to 250 hp. Congrats :D What other bolt on mods do you have? I have pretty close to the same turbo as you but I also have just about every bolt on so I am trying to calculate what my power would be. Also what psi where you running?
 

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Also, it was a mustang dyno I made my 240hp nitrous and 170 N/A at + the 15% of course. N/A I was running [email protected] mph with bald street tires and getting a 2.5 60ft. Looking at those numbers and taking into account i did NO wieght reduction I would say THe dyno numbers plus 15% are pretty accurate. I think I could have easily got into the low 14's to high 13's all motor.
 

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Yeah it's too bad you never got some drag radials or slicks to bring that time down.

You were posting similar power numbers to StreetThis, and he was down to a 13.5 before he started the rebuild.

Granted he had a lot of weight reduction, but I am sure a perfect race with slicks would have broken 14 even with full interior.

Save some money for some tires when you finish that turbo setup, and let me know how everything goes. I will be joining you once I get another car.

BTW, don't you have quite a bit of miles on her now? Are you going to rebuild before you boost or let her die boosted and happy.
 

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jdwk said:
Yeah it's too bad you never got some drag radials or slicks to bring that time down.

You were posting similar power numbers to StreetThis, and he was down to a 13.5 before he started the rebuild.

Granted he had a lot of weight reduction, but I am sure a perfect race with slicks would have broken 14 even with full interior.

Save some money for some tires when you finish that turbo setup, and let me know how everything goes. I will be joining you once I get another car.

BTW, don't you have quite a bit of miles on her now? Are you going to rebuild before you boost or let her die boosted and happy.
He is just a damn good Driver! I dont think I would ever get that low just becasue I am not the worlds best driver. I know i could have got lower though. As for milage, I am currently pushing about 130,000. When I did the cams the engine looked like new inside and she is running strong. I will boost it as is and see what happens.
 

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I was looking at that plot. So many have said a T3 is too smal and will choke out. Well looking at the plot you are still making peak power roughly at the same spot. So its not like the power band shifted a whole lot. If I had to guess I would say a T3 would probably get you right in to the 250hp range with supporting bolt ons. For me, thats excactly what I want. I think 250 is perfect for a daily driven monster. Anything above that I think it starts having reliability issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you want to have a seriously fast 2.5 I do believe the T3 is too small. Its not that they max out power but the compressor housings are too small and cant flow enough to keep up with the amount of exhaust thats pushed thru them. As you know, the small turbos give you that huge torque surge when you first stomp the pedal. This one still has the torque surge but it actually holds 6 psi solid up to redline but it does run out of power early. If I could have it my way I would have a .63 AR hotside with a stage 2 turbine and T04E 54 trim compressor wheel. That fits the V6 flow perfect and would result in 270+ on just about anyones car w/ the right fuel setup.

As far as the dyno plot goes its obviously a little short of what reality is. I have seen 300+ whp cars dyno on a mustang dyno and only get 270 whp so I know its off a little. For bolt ons I have a 2.5" ehxuast & dp, ngk-fr7 plugs, stock injectors, P&P IM & TB, 12:1 FMU and thats really about it. I havent done anything internally yet and hopefully wont have to. This pull was @ 6 psi which is listed right there on the dynosheet HAHA @- From what I understand the smallish T3 compressor wheels flow so much less air than a big hybrid that you can pretty much run 2 more psi and not detonate at all. So if I had S injectors, a smaller FMU like 10:1, and the 7th injector Im adding I could easily run 10 psi and be perfectly safe. :tup: That would produce around 265 whp, wouldn't that be fun })
 

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I am still deciding what level setup I want to go. I have pretty much decided to stick with stock internals. My car only has 52k or so it would be kind of dumb to tear it down already.

I don't want turbo lag, and the primary reason that I want a turbo is for the summer, when it's 116 out, the AC is on, and the car doesn't want to move. So the setup has to be extremely reliable with no overheating problems. It also has to spool quick and early. There is a TON of really bad drivers out here. The crash rate is the highest of any city in the US. Most of them are women in SUVs that can't see little cars.

I was almost ran over by an Expedition this past summer. I stomped the gas to save my life, but I almost didn't make it. At that point, I decided I have to do some serious upgrading in the power dept.

Right now it is like 45 degrees in the morning and the car effing flies. She is almost fast enough for me as is. I walked a late 80's C4 the other night, but I dread next summer.
 

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jdwk said:
I am still deciding what level setup I want to go. I have pretty much decided to stick with stock internals. My car only has 52k or so it would be kind of dumb to tear it down already.

I don't want turbo lag, and the primary reason that I want a turbo is for the summer, when it's 116 out, the AC is on, and the car doesn't want to move. So the setup has to be extremely reliable with no overheating problems. It also has to spool quick and early. There is a TON of really bad drivers out here. The crash rate is the highest of any city in the US. Most of them are women in SUVs that can't see little cars.

I was almost ran over by an Expedition this past summer. I stomped the gas to save my life, but I almost didn't make it. At that point, I decided I have to do some serious upgrading in the power dept.

Right now it is like 45 degrees in the morning and the car effing flies. She is almost fast enough for me as is. I walked a late 80's C4 the other night, but I dread next summer.

after experiencing my car atr 12 psi, small turbo or none, im confident this turbo will suit my needs :)

it IS small and wont produce the mega power (300whp+) that some may be shooting for, but i am very confident it will make mid 200's without a sweat. for me drivability was paramount. i might go with a slightly larger turbo but not much.. i like being able to hit it in 3rd gear at an insanely low rpm and still have it spool.

different tastes for different people :)

the hybrids are excellent turbos as well - no knocking them.. just not my partuicular tastes.
 

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After reading max boost a few times and doing the calcs myself (yeah, I am a nerd), I believe the lower you keep that torque curve the easier the setup will be on your internals.

I'll have to do the math again, but I think 12psi at 6000rpms is less stress on the rods than 6psi at 7500rpms.

I have been actually using the compressor maps and the displacement of the engine, compression ratio, effective CR, and what RPM I want my max power to determine the best setup.
Did I mention that I am a nerd?

The Super60 seems to be just about right. So I am interested to see how b4tn's turns out, although I am not sure his is a true Super60, but I bet it's close enough.

I am pretty used to shifting around 6500 rpms, because that's where my lightly modded car is fastest anyway (except in our super short 1st gear). So I am not to worried if my power drops off around there.
 

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DrBrown said:
From what I understand the smallish T3 compressor wheels flow so much less air than a big hybrid that you can pretty much run 2 more psi and not detonate at all.
Ummm... Why would you want to do that? Having a bigger turbo, less psi and putting out the same power output would be a lot more friendly to the engine.

Also, I think, many of you people who are addicted to small turbos might really think different if you'd have the same car to drive 1 day with both small and big turbo. The car just feels to have so much less stress with big turbo. I have done both.

Anyway, it's your choice, and whatever turbo you choose (from the right scale at least) will net you a big grin if it works right.

This said, I have my old piping + turbo + IC setup still laying on my garage un-sold. ;)

Mici
 

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LOVE THE TURBO TALK>> BRING IT ON

MICI<
What do you want for your piping and intercooler.?? Do intercoolers go bad? I'm thinking of getting Dans.

All you guys have to get the Forged Pistons and Rods. So you can run a higher PSI. You would never worry about blowin a rod or Piston. Are any of ya'll goin to do a bottom end? I feel your MX6 deserves the Best.

I have a 1983 Yamaha Seca Turbo in my back yard. Tini little turbo. I clamped the wastegate shut,, and it runs a steady 15 psi. BAM>> But I blew my chip and fried my Fuel pump.. I love Turbos.

Project next year. Turbo my 1997 Mazda MPV Allsport 4 Wheel Drive Van and buy my MX6.


I will post those photos. hahah
Bartley
})
 

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i am definitely planning a bench build.. waitinf for a cheap block to become available in my area so i dont have to pay for shipping.. hell the local guys are nice enough to give away their ruined motors.

basically - i keep it moderate on my motor, but even before the turbo it was feeling a little "tired" at 110k miles. during the winter and spring i slowly build up my dream motor. (slowly because i cant afford to do it all at once LOL)

however my dream KL motor consists of a certain custom manifold ahem mici. :) haha j/k :) it will come about when it comes about.
 
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