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need advise and opinion on swap F8 with FE

7K views 53 replies 7 participants last post by  gift90288 
#1 ·
Hi guys...
I have F8 in GC and I plan to swap the engine with FE 2.0. Is't possible to use 2.0 engine with 1.8 wiring, intake mani, exzos mani, afm and ECU?
What i have to change with the 1.8 system if want to run with 2.0 engine? Is't plug n play? How to diffrenciate the FE 140hp and 168hp, any engine code or by valve cover's colour? I heard someone turboed the F8/FE by using F2T ems..is it possible to use others turbo wiring system i.e BPT from 323? my future planning is to turbo the FE engine after completed swapping the engine. sorry for lots of question..just too exciting to get info in this mx6 forum...thanks in advace.

Tarmezee.
Malaysia.
-previously using BPT in GC-
 
#2 ·
#3 ·
mitsi evo wiring and ecu can be used just fit mitsi injectors (direct swap) omit the idle control valve. and the mazda cas plugs into the mitsi loom just swap the optical disk in the dizzy for either a mx5 disk or a mitsi vr4 and run the evo wasted spark. cant use optical disk out of evo dissy cos they not optical but halleffect sensor. use mitsi evo afm and it all works easy peasy the bull shit the idiot above stated as fact that no other is close simply isnt true, but his lack of experience would explain that as you cant learn everything simply by reading the internet
 
#4 ·
get a life loser

for reference as the king of edited posts likes to change his tune.

mitsi evo wiring and ecu can be used just fit mitsi injectors (direct swap) omit the idle control valve. and the mazda cas plugs into the mitsi loom just swap the optical disk in the dizzy for either a mx5 disk or a mitsi vr4 and run the evo wasted spark. cant use optical disk out of evo dissy cos they not optical but halleffect sensor. use mitsi evo afm and it all works easy peasy the bull [shizzle] the idiot above stated as fact that no other is close simply isnt true, but his lack of experience would explain that as you cant learn everything simply by reading the internet
you're a wanker fraud. more unprovoked attacking. any oem ecu for a boosted application is a WASTE OF TIME. period.

yes you could retrofit an entire mitsi setup, but in the same time i could have fitted a ms and and started tuning to a better state than any oem ecu could ever get you...
 
#7 ·
I was running the F8-DOHC Turbo with the F2T ECU.
Not Plug and Play as you need to modify the distributor shaft for example.
In my case, this was the easiest option and it worked great.

Regarding the use of the BPT Engine Management System, I think it would be a good idea too because it is somehow similar to the F2T EMS (VAF etc ...)

My advice for a stable working engine:
F8-DOHC or FE-DOHC engine
+
F2T EMS

Then you can always upgrade in case u want something more elaborated

FE-DOCH Engine are available in 140PS and 150PS forms (9.2:1 and 10:1)
There was a variant at 165PS but it is only available in certain models and woudl be hard to get. If you plan on turboing it it doesn't matter anyway.
For a turbo application , prefer the 9.2:1 CR engine (Should have an oxygen sensor if I recall correctly)

Peace
NSXR
 
#8 ·
nsxr, did you have a wideband on that setup? the fueling should be pretty good, as its air meter driven, but the ign table will be way off for the dohc head.

still, not as bad as an na ign map which a few people on here unwisely use with their turbo setups.

fred.
 
#17 ·
nsxr, did you have a wideband on that setup? the fueling should be pretty good, as its air meter driven, but the ign table will be way off for the dohc head.

still, not as bad as an na ign map which a few people on here unwisely use with their turbo setups.

fred.
No wideband no ...

But I can say that the Dyno I did with the F8-DOHC Turbo gave exactly the same AFR as the F2T Engine. Good enough for me.

Also F2T Head flows less but is for 2.2L.
FE-DOHC Head flows more but is 2L

Therefore what you say about the fuel maps being off is in some way right.
But ... The decrease in displacamant is lisghtly correcting for that.

This is not perfect science as there is always the chaotic aspect of engine thermodinamics involved.

This is why I never try tu use the latest (Coolest?) FMU for my project.
I just stick to what works good.

Also I never have big HP visions anyway and my technical restrictions are therefore less important.

Peace
NSXR
 
#10 ·
the real story...

The story is like this...previously I using BPT setup in my car but last 6 months I involved in accident and all consider total lost including the car..luckily I'm save (always remember to use seat belt when speeding)..BPT's engine is gone but only left behind are the wiring, turbo, ecu and others. Then I bought another car (also GC Ford Telstar) that already fitted with F8. Found this MX6 forum and curious what can I do to upgrade the F8 engine without changing the engine mounting (it is violate state laws to change engine mounting). I've upgrade some on my BPT by using Subaru IHI VF10 turbo, mitsu VR4 450cc injector, 1jz supra FMIC, stainless steel piping for FMIC, SARD EGT and APEXI SAFC to control the AFR. Once dynoed and got 206.5whp at 0.84bar (arround 12psi if not mistake) with the standard BPT clutch set. Stand alone ems (microtech) here is to expensive to buy and wonder if I can use back all the BPT setup in new F8 @ FE engine without using much of $$$$. Yes, I will read lots in this forum to get more info on this. Any opinion and suggestion appreciate it lots. thanks.
 
#15 ·
Not bad.....I didnt want to register to look at the photos tho....I could tell much from the thumbnails.
I used to host my photos at a similar site, but after being on here became a convert to photobucket...its ideal for forums
 
#18 ·
the afrs being right is predictable really as the afm measures the air going in and adds fuel to match. it doesnt care what size the engine is, all it cares about is the volume of air, and how much fuel it has to put in to match.

as for spark, the f2t spark is probably on the too advanced side of go. reason being, the 12v chamber is slower burn, and thus needs more advance to obtain pcp at the correct angle. so long as you had the knock control box and sensor hooked up, even that wouldnt matter too much so long as boost was on the low side.

how much boost were you pushing?

fred.
 
#19 ·
Yeah reread your post ... I was under the impressiosn you were talkin bout fuel maps first ...

I was boosting 7-9 PSI. So pretty much stock F2T Boost.

Like I said HP goals were modest and I mainly built the F8-DOCH Turbo as an Exercise.

I am glad it worked out and we can at least say that the thing works.
Every body is free to upgrade after that.

What was cool also is I could always toubleshoot the engine like I would do with a F2T.

Peace
NSXR
 
#21 ·
What low RPM cut?

And no, the ECU was stock F2T.

As far as the ECU was concerned the engine in there was a F2T (All sensors from the F2T).

This project was basically a mechanical swap of the F2T Block to The F8-DOHC Block.

Peace
NSXR
 
#23 · (Edited)
Well the thing is I never experienced the RPM cut in the F2T Either.

And the F8-DOHC was reving fine to 7000 RPM IIRC

I think someone should actually investigate the claims about these RPM limitations.
Because I have never experienced them in F2T and FE-DOHC

Was reving past 7000 with my FE-DOHC no problem.
Did my top speed with the FE-DOHC at 235Km/h and 7200rpm for example.

Also as a reminder and for the Thread starter, here is the Thread regarding the F8 DOHC Turbo:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/fe-dohc/166868-f8-dohc-turbo-stock-f2t-ems.html

Peace
NSXR
 
#25 ·
Hi Man,

I don't see any problem using the BPT ECU with an FE-DOHC.

You just have to make sure that the ECU thinks it is a BPT it is controlling.

Every BPT sensors, injectors ... must be adapted to be a perfect fit on the FE-DOHC. One difficulty I se would be the distributor as I have never really seen a BPT distributor (On the F2T to FE-DOHC swap this was the part I had to modify by extending the shaft). I wish I would have documented the swap more carefuly.

Any way if you choose to go this route and need support, let me know. I can give you some support.

Regarding the F2T ECU, it would cost you a lot to get everything since you would then need the ECU, the wiring, the sensors, the VAF, the distributor ...

If you are lucky and somebody is parting a GT you could have all these parts together for a good price (Provided the seller is a true sixer and would rather help than charge you with big money)

Also, depending on your budget, I could always get you all the stuff from a Probe GT here in Germany.

Peace
NSXR
 
#26 ·
hi NSXR..thank a lot man...
that what I want to hear...since I have all the BPT stuff ..I will try for it first....I'll update after I start my project...my first step is to get FE engine first...change to 2.0 engine..I will seek your help if needed...this is what FORUM all about...thanks..
 
#30 ·
by less than one tooth, i assume you mean greater than half a tooth? if so, thats actually quite a lot and will affect the running of the engine, in our case, probably shifting the power band upwards iirc. it could affect low end performance/emissions though. not that anyone realllly cares about that on their performance modified car.

fred.
 
#31 ·
double head gasket brings the power band down lower in the rpm as it advances the cam timing. double gaskets is not a good idea but i calculated once on a fe dohc at stock 10:1 with 2 gaskets comes down to about 8.2:1 not that ive ever done a double up or recommend it! and if using bpt stuff on a fe dohc try to sorce gtr mazda ecu and injectors and afm rather than gtx as gtx injectors are only 360cc and gtr are 440cc and has a slightly bigger afm, the bpt dizzy will fit straight in but you dont need to change it you can use a stock fe dohc dizzy as it is of the same type and has the same trigger disk some even have the same plug if it doesnt have the same plug it will still work just need to change the plug the wiring is still the same
 
#32 ·
thannks for the comment..
my BPT previously already upgraded and already changed the injector to mitsu's VR4..I use Apexi super air flow controller to adjust the afr reading...fuel pump also upgraded to bosch from merc..but donno what model or part#...
 
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