[Sjlax4]

Does anyone know if they make proformance chips for 6's and where i could get one, how much HP is would add, and if it harms the car?

 

[Super6]

chips for the 5speed which you have don't do nothing unless you have an automatic...save your money and get something to put more air in and out of that engine of yours

 

[xeon]

The chip manufacturers will tell you that they increase the hp a certain number, but that's BS. Or at least with our cars. There are more effective ways to get performance out of the engine.

 

[4WSboy]

The chip manufacturers will tell you that they increase the hp a certain number, but that's BS. Or at least with our cars. There are more effective ways to get performance out of the engine.

Yeah, So who's had one and removed it?. The chip or new ECU is probably THE most effective way of increasing HP.

Put your 2.25" exhausts on and swap your panel filter and what have you got 5hp?.

Yes I do have one (Powerchip gold).($500 u.s installed)

 

[Losiho]

How do you find the Powerchip Steve ? I was toying with the idea of having a gold chip installed, but the reputation, price, and the salesman scared me away.

 

[Mike 94PGT]

Yeah, So who's had one and removed it?. The chip or new ECU is probably THE most effective way of increasing HP.

Put your 2.25" exhausts on and swap your panel filter and what have you got 5hp?.

Yes I do have one (Powerchip gold).($500 u.s installed)

Xeon is likely referring to makers like Superchips that make wild, unfounded claims like a 21BHP gain from a PROM for the 2.5L normally aspirated V6.

And, yes, for the V6 there are better bangs for the buck. Superchips charges something around $300 to install a chip that might give 5HP. Hotshot sells a cold air intake for $170 or so that gives 5 dyno-proven HP.

I've spent years reverse engineering the PROM and PCM hardware in the Mazda/Denso MECS-II PCM used in the 93-95 V6 and can tell you that there's just not huge gains to be had there. You can fine tune and customize certain things (see my web page for examples) like VRIS and spark timing and more esoteric things like tip-in spark retard reduction etc, but fiddling with spark and fuel will not make gobs more power on a normally aspirated V6. While it's true that some cars (namely some GM cars & trucks) come from the factory with very conservative calibrations, the Mazda V6 isn't one of them. Real power is made by moving more air and fuel through the engine, something a chip in a normally aspirated car doesn't have much control over (esp. air.)

Of course I'm always willing to accept that there may be devices/chips out there that may make a difference if presented with unequivocable proof. Do you have Dynojet plots of your car before and after the chip install? What were the weather conditions on the day of the testing? How much time elapsed from the "before" run to the "after" run? How much actual (not butt-dyno, but measured) power did your chip give you?

 

[Sjlax4]

If not a chip, then what is the best/most inexpensive way to increase my speed in the 6?

 

[Mike 94PGT]

If not a chip, then what is the best/most inexpensive way to increase my speed in the 6?

In a nutshell: Move more air and fuel and reduce parasitic losses.

If your car is a 5-speed, you should expect about 135HP at the wheels totally stock.

If you add all the popular air-mover bolt-ons (headers, CAI, throttle body, cat-back etc) as well as parasitic loss reducers like an underdrive pulley and lightened flywheel etc, you might find your car in the 150-155HP range at the wheels. A PROM, custom or very well done, might add 5-7 to this.

If you want more than that, you'll need to get more oxygen through N2O or forced induction.

 

[seezar]

Go to http://www.corksport.com They are the mazda speed dealers for the us. They have the chip that will bump your car up to Jap specs which puts out 200 hp.

 

[Mike 94PGT]

Go to http://www.corksport.com They are the mazda speed dealers for the us. They have the chip that will bump your car up to Jap specs which puts out 200 hp.

It's not that simple. The KLZE "Japanese-spec" motor has a different intake manifold, different camshafts, different heads (larger ports), different pistons (10:1 compression) and a different PCM calibration (e.g. vastly different timing tables and VRIS points). This motor makes 36HP more than the KL03 engine by virtue of all of these items, not just the PCM calibration.

Corksport sells the KLZE engine with a newly programmed 'ECU' to "to optimize functionality of the KL-ZE engine in vehicles which originally came with the US versions of the K-series engines." If you've got a KLZE and didn't get it through them but want the KLZE calibration, it'll cost you $395 to do it through them.

However, putting a KLZE calibration on a KL03 would be silly, if for no other reason than the VRIS points are drastically different due to the intake manifold differences.

 

[Jasen]

The thing about rechipping ECU's is that the chip or program that you buy was tested and designed on a specific test car, with mods probably done to it already. And the real problem is that fuel and ignition curves that work great on one car's setup may be less than great on another's. The absolute best way to rechip your ecu is to get a programmable one and have it dyno tuned to have the trim levels set by the shop specifically for your engine/setup. When you buy a mass produced one chip fits all kind of thing, you're taking a chance on it being as good as they say. In some cases it may be... but unless they spell out the exact conditions they tested it on, how do you know?

 

[MX-6 BOY jr]

actually I have seen KLZE dynos with and without the reprogramed ecu and there is no diference.

 

[Mike 94PGT]

actually I have seen KLZE dynos with and without the reprogramed ecu and there is no diference.

I'm dubious. Let me give an example: in the KL03, the VRIS points at WOT are the familiar 3250/4250/6250 points. In the KLZE, the equivalent points are 4062/4781/6812. The spark maps are way different as well.

So, where are these dyno plots? I'd like to see them to see if the VRIS points are occuring at the correct points for the "KLZE PCM". In other words, what was actually programmed into the PCM? Do you have a URL for these plots?

 

[MX-6 BOY jr]

go to corksport's PROJECT MX-3gs on there web page. they have a dyno with the klze as and there own ecu. Also look at michaels page and you will see the VRIS DIPS are in the same place. check your email for the plots. you will also notice that the car with the stock ecu pulls higher hp and torque numbers as well.





[Edited by MX-6 BOY jr on 05-12-2001 at 01:13 PM]

 

[Mike 94PGT]

go to corksport's PROJECT MX-3gs on there web page. they have a dyno with the klze as and there own ecu. Also look at michaels page and you will see the VRIS DIPS are in the same place. check your email for the plots. you will also notice that the car with the stock ecu pulls higher hp and torque numbers as well.





[Edited by MX-6 BOY jr on 05-12-2001 at 01:13 PM]

Thanks John. Actually, the VRIS points on Michels are at 3250/4250/6250 while the Corksport ones are at 3750/4750/6450. These don't appear to be the true KLZE points (at least as I understand them to be) so I wonder if the Corksport ECU "upgrade" is a simple re-cal of a US-spec KL03 PCM rather than installing an actual KLZE PROM.

And indeed, Fortier's car is making a ton more torque around 5000. I wonder if that 1.8L exhaust on Corksport's car is that much of a restriction (I notice too they had an HKS intake on it too...) Interestingly, peak power isn't that much different but Fortier's got a bunch more area under the torque curve.

 

[MX-6 BOY jr]

no problem Mike. Yes, Michaels car does seem to stomp all over the corksport car especially in the area of torque. By the way,what are the actual j spec vris shift points suppost to be at?

 

[Mike 94PGT]

no problem Mike. Yes, Michaels car does seem to stomp all over the corksport car especially in the area of torque. By the way,what are the actual j spec vris shift points suppost to be at?

My source has the KLZE VRIS points at (KL03 shown first):

The 3250 point maps to 4062.5
The 4250 point maps to 4781.25
The 6250 point maps to 6812.5

As well, the KLZE follows the "standard" VRIS activation we all know all the time, not just at WOT. For those who don't know, the KL03 will hold #1 open and #2 closed all the time whenever the RPM is over 500 and the throttle is less than about 2.6V. For the KL03, it's only at WOT that you see the 3250/4250/6250 pattern. The KLZE does it's pattern all the time.

Something else to consider. I've done some research into an old MX3 V6 PROM I have and think I have the VRIS points for the KL08 (the 1.8L V6 in the GS) as 3875/4656/6312. (Note: I can't be absolutely sure about these points because some of the MX3 opcodes are unknown to me, so the code is fractured and I'm making best estimates because of this.)

Now, this is suspicous to me because I noted a post or two ago that the Corksport plots seemed to indicate that the switching points were 3750/4750/6450, which struck me as incorrect for the KLZE points I mention above. Notice how close my estimates from that dyno plot were to what I believe the true MX3 KL08 VRIS points - 3875/4656/6312 - are.

My conclusion: the KLZE that Corksport tested was likely run with a stock or slightly modified KL08 PCM, not a true KLZE PCM or calibration. They already admit that the car was strangled by the 1.8L exhaust, confirming that the car was at one time a KL08, so it's very likely in my eyes that they used the OEM PCM.

If indeed that's the case, and if Corksport is selling this calibration as a true KLZE upgrade (for $395 no less) then some people may have a case for accusing Corksport of false advertising if not something more serious. Fraud perhaps? Certainly, proof would lie in getting ones hands on a PCM "upgraded" by Corksport and examining the PROM contents.