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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey guys i only a noobie but im just about to start on a project to find out how much power can be squeazed out of the fe3 and im gonna need all the help i can get.

the first phase is research and development because i want to get this right the first time. please pick my ideas to pieces and feel free to give constructive critisizim.

i am currently looking for a fe3 to use for the block and all external parts
here is a list of the parts i want to use all found from Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts

cylinder head-part num-chvnk5. New or non-welded remanufactured head assembled w/valves, guides, springs, retainers, keepers ad valve stem seals.
Import Performance Parts - KIA Topline Engines & Heads

crankshaft-part num-csma8. Crankshaft Kits Include: Crankshaft, Main bearings, Rod bearings, and Thrust Washers
Import Performance Parts - Mazda Topline Cranks & Rods

HP engine rebuild kit-part num-ekk5mpxg.
Complete Gasket Set
Copper Performance Head Gasket
ROSS/Wiseco Forged Custom Pistons
86.5 bore and
10.5 comp ratio
Performance Rings
Performance Wrist Pins
TOGA HP Main Bearings
TOGA HP Rod Bearings
Thrust Washers
Timing Belt
TOGA high volume oil pump
Import Performance Parts - Kia HP Engine Kits

water pump-part num-wpk5.
Import Performance Parts - KIA Topline Water Pumps & Timing Belts

cams-part num inlet-cam5i
part num exhaust-cam5e
Import Performance Parts - KIA Topline Valvetrain Parts

as for the conrods i am undecided. can any1 suggest any product, im budgeting 500 bucks for rods.

are there any internals i have forgotten?
 

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For starters why would you want a Kia sportage cam? IMO go for dual FE5A cams. As for the rods budget a little higher like 700-900 USD, of course. NA 200-400 possible before getting into Nitro. Turbo can go as far as 2000hp, look up Louis Lima. Just please post lots of pics of the project. The really help you get responces and rep. Good luck! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for your replies guys, its going to be n/a as laws in aus pruvent me from drive a turbo car, as for the cams i wanted to buy new unused cams and have them reground to custom specs, it might be a month or so untill the engine work starts as im having problems finding a good engine.
 
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mops_telstar said:
its going to be n/a as laws in aus pruvent me from drive a turbo car
Then why waste your time buying parts you don't need if you're only going to wuss out? Do you think you'd be the only person in Aus driving a non turbo car with a turbocharger? 86.5mm pistons aren't going to give you much of anything over stock, nor will 10.5 CR pistons if you have no way to control fuel and spark. And if you say that you're going to control fuel and spark with aftermarket fuel management that is just as illegal as installing a turbocharger.

I call shenanigans on "project freak" :freak: LOL

If you want to do it right, then do it right. Register it first, then turbocharge it. When it comes time to register and smog (emissions testing) it again, take everything out. The end.

Fred?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i dont think you understand aus law. for the first 4 years on our licence we are banned from driving any cars with forced induction, v8 or larger and hiperformance 6cyls eg porche. if police catch us driving one we can lose our licence for 2 years. the reason i want 86.5mm pistons is because i want to bore it out slightly to have perfectly clean bores i dont want to go larger because block strength integrity is lost. im going for that comp ratio to keep on the safe side (can i go higher safely and if so how high???) and as for fuel and spark that is no problem as i am an auto electrician by trade and i work for a company that specialises in aftermarket fuel, spark and engine management. to help me with my project is my boss whe is also a fitter and machinist and mechanic by trade.

is there a company that makes individual throttle bodys for a fe3?

ps aftermarket computers are not illegal over here
 

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my stock fe3 is 10:1 cr, i think you can go higher. (ive seen 16.5:1 on a k24a with race gas :eek:) as for premade itb's, tell me if you find a company that makes some :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
wow thats a high comp ratio, i decided i will go with the advice and try for a 12.0-1 ratio but the problem is the highest comp ratio pistons i can find are 11.o-1 and i really dont want to machine the block to get 12.0-1 as there is the issue of very close clearances between the valves and piston (please correct me if i have been misinformed). as for the itbs my boss and i are going to have a crack at them(his wife is a mechanical engineer YAAAAAY)
hey does any1 know if the f2 inlet manifold will bolt to the fe3???
 

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The F2 mainfold will not bolt to an FE3. An Fe3 manifold will bolt to an FE3..... If you want to bypass the VICS, get yourself a 1.8ltr manifold. Slightly smaller capacity, but everything else is the same.

As for the law here in Aus, you're on the money about Probationary licenses and Forced induction cars. It used to be ok, when it was power to weight where they would go off the factory power outputs. Not so sure you have your facts right about aftermarket management though.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
lol o well just looks like i have to do a factory looking loom. hey great tip for any1 upgrading injectors instead of being limited to the injectors with the same plug as factory just go to and auto sparkie and get the plug you need for the injector you want to use. then cut off your old plug and solder on the new one(or second hand plug). hey SABBAi what is the engine code to the 1.8 you refer to??

p.s you guys are f*^king awesome
 

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Then why waste your time buying parts you don't need if you're only going to wuss out? Do you think you'd be the only person in Aus driving a non turbo car with a turbocharger? 86.5mm pistons aren't going to give you much of anything over stock, nor will 10.5 CR pistons if you have no way to control fuel and spark. And if you say that you're going to control fuel and spark with aftermarket fuel management that is just as illegal as installing a turbocharger.

I call shenanigans on "project freak" :freak: LOL

If you want to do it right, then do it right. Register it first, then turbocharge it. When it comes time to register and smog (emissions testing) it again, take everything out. The end.

Fred?
We dont have mandatory emissions testing. You dont understand our laws to comment to be honest. Technically a P plater is also not allowed to have a modified car but if it isnt very in your face obvious (such as an intercooler and turbo bits everywhere) it will go unnoticed at a roadside check and that is all you really need to pass. Building NA is easy to hide to just a plain eye, and im sure that is what he is going for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thankyou turk i couldnt of said it better it is exactly my plan. SABBAi after reading what turk said it made me realise ITB'S are out of the question plus using the 1.8 manifold as you suggest means i could use the stock f2 computer and sensors(already checked very comptable) with piggyback computer designed to manually adjust air/fuel ratios
 

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You don't have a second or third daily driver?

If you're going to mess with it anyways and dont have a second car just do that and build the engine with turbo in mind. I mean as is, the car is going to be down for weeks while you rebuild this thing anyways so I take it you do have something else to drive no?

So again, why waste time, money, and energy on something that won't give you much of a return anyways? I mean seriously what do you expect this to do over what you have now? What you want is a joke man! I doubt you'd even come anywhere near 200 hp and thats for real. Sad but true.

I'm done with this thread though.
 

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You will not get a good result from a piggy-vack and an F2 ECU.

Piggybacks are really olny OK for very minor breathing mods to a motor.
Not for tuning a transplanted engine with higher compression & lumpy cams.

From the sound of it you are sparing no expense on the engine build, why cheap out on arguably the most important part the control.
You will have a hard time maintaining a stable idle, correct fuel delivery, correct ignition timing to suit the compression and cams & controlling knock.

And don't forget that most piggyback systems will not work with an F2 ECU because the VAF output is not the standard 0-5V.


And all this money you are spending is mostly going to be a waste because once you are off your P's you could take a standard FE3 turbo it run aftermarket ECU for upto about 400hp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
no i only have the one car, i plan to build a fe3 while i still drive my car with the stock f2 in it and whan im ready to drop the motor in im taking 3 weels annual leave to get it running and enjoy it. im doing this purely to learn and have fun

for the computer yeah your right i should stop skimping on parts, i think i have a spare wolf 3d floating around work somewhere i'll just use that.
i can see what your all getting at with the turbo thing but when im allowed to drive a turbo all i have to do is throw in some low comp pistons, do the turbo system and reprogram the computer all of which is easy
 

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i think you can get some power out of the fe3 n/a. skip the copperhead gasket. those are waay to thick. you can use them but youl have to shave the engine block to create the correct quench. dont waste your money on custom pistons. stay with the stock ones and just shave the rest of the head. how high cr you can go depends on the fuel you run and your cams. the more extreme your cams are the higher cr you can run. (bpt's adjustable camgears might help). so basicly its just a bit guesssing. now one can tell you how high you can go. only rough estimations... regrinded high spec cams( no need to regrind the lowspec cams) 98 ron octane fuel i would say 11. maybe 12.... but remember going to high is not good. you can prevent detonation by retarding your timing but that just doesn't make sense. if youve done it allright youl see that when you tune it on the dyno youl get more power the more you advance timing. when your still advancing and keep gaining power and then detonation kicks in your cr is to high or your octane is to low. if you keep advancing and you advance a slight bit more and dont gain power anymore that is where your timing should be. reach the max power just slight before detonation.
thats building a race engine
 

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God damn it, I ask a leading question and you bastards all beat me to the flame war...

NA, lundes numbers are through the fcuking roof... expect no more than 200hp or so from an NA fe3 with moderate work. Don't expect more than 1000hp from a 2.0 4cylinder engine either, yes, it could be done, but not on a learner driver budget.

Sounds like you should buy a type r civic or teg or bzg/bzr levin for a few years and then build a real car up.

Fred.
 

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Caution lotsa Quotes.

I dont see any reason why you couldm't take another ITB airbox and adapt it onto yours BAM it looks legal. :tup:

Unless your officer has been through Mazda shop training. :shrug:

Some examples of the type of info and build examples whe have here for your reading ands viewing pleasure.

reground cams or better stock ones,


now is left to install them and do some dynoing...
ooh.... i need to get after the spec sheet.. it was not included.
so i cant tell u guys anything about duration, lift etc etc.
ill post it here when i know this.
cams where made by Catcams.
today i received 2 extra cams to complete my collection of cams for the FE-DOHC.
i made some pics for those who care and did some measuring.






these are the outcomes of my lobeheight measurements:
FE5A = 45.00
FE3N = 45.05
FEAP = 44.85
F8KI = 43.00
all measured in mm's


performance valve springs,
Yes it comes with 24.... COMP Cams: Honda/Acura B-Series DOHC Valve Spring Set

8 inners and 16 outers. I am not using the inner from the set. I am using the 16 factory FE inners with the 16 Comp Cams b18 outers.

You can buy them individually, but i bought them as a set.


ITB's
just for pics mainly, here they are :











i took some measurements aswell, but not with me now. the rx7 injectors fit the gsxr perfectly, just requiring a spacer for the rail. the diameter in the rail is about 0.5 m- 1 mm bigger than the fe3 ones... i still havent decided what to do about a manifold for the inlet side. i may have a fit up and decision session this weekend depending on what else i do and dont get done....

enjoy.

fred.
custom pistons
Did recive a another early x-mas gift today :D


the pistons for my 2.3 fe-doch!


one of the pistons even wanted to be in a photoshoot :p




when x-mas is over, the block is beeing bored to fit the 3.462 inch pistons :D

some info:


engine management
FUEL AIR SPARK TECHNOLOGY
DIYEFI.org Still in developement.
DIYAutoTune.com Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products
Simple Digital Systems EM-4

All just a few examples of the ammount of information on here if you need. Cant wait to see what you put together.


Fred: What if the guy is loaded dont we deserver to see someone spend an assload on an engine that has little or no market.:p


I was shooting from the hip on the #'s though but just trying to make a point that this engine has Potential. Dont disgurage the guy though.
 

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Whats going to kill you is - you live in a small town a town that's name spelt backwards is the same. ( Aussie trivia)

IMO - your up against a brick wall.
Because one mistake like a small accident - and might not be your fault - one check of engine numbers ? - your history

Because F2 engine number starts F2 - Fe DOHC engine number start FE

it's problem because No GD model Telstar is listed with a FE engine
except the bae GL and a Engine swap is considered a ? Modification.

And it's not worth it at your young age.

It sucks but the best small car for P-platers is the SSS pulsar - mainly because it's got power to weight and modifications are massivly reponsive.
In comparisson the FE DOHC - does not respond as well.
Most aus importers will only import Auto Wagon late model engines for warrenty reason and still charge $600 for one with out warrenty. As it still costs the same to import.

IMO - get use to the F2 and wait and wait or Do smarter thing and go buy another car.

In fact turk will proberly agree on this a KL-ZE swap is alot more _P- plater friendly then any 1st gen swap.

I know because Here in Sydney I've been helping P-platers Loose licences
Most I tell them the car is a ED XR-6 or EF /EL falcon = easiest to make go quick easiest to hide from the Police.


For those who don't understand this P-plater bits
I'll explain

P-Plater is for Provisional Licence Holder. Here in Australia , you must minimal do 6 months of Learners licence - EG hold it for 6 months Minimal Motor bike or car depending on age and previous histroy. You then move to this Provisional Licence - that you must carry a
"P"-plate symbol on your car. It was originally untill 2000 a minimal 12month Probation period.
Due to Accident tolls and Deaths - it was extended to approx 4 years all up or now known as 1- year REd and 2 Year Green.
Red = 4 Demerit point 90km/h 55MPH ( in perspective non P plate symbol = 2 demerit points )
Green = 6 Demerit points and slighlty higher speed restriction 100km/h -62MPH
national now limit is approx 110km/h on any major highway. only one road has a 130km/h was once limit free
In 2006 - new law passed due to Many MANY MANY MANY deaths and street racing to put P-platers and youg drivers out of harm.
It meant any Hi-performance car was banned. It originally target - turbo and V8's but then due to question over cars like M3's and Type R hondas - it added more
but for example a 2nd gen is not on but a 1st gen is.
It also meant that any modification changing the performance of a car was deemed illigal and the P-plater who owns it or not (most young people's car are owned by MUMMY and DADDY or the Bank )
Must not be modified.

Now true most police won't bother checking cars top to bottom. but
They have impound yards full and like Many States Across the USA - that have Car crushing for street racers etc.
We have the Caught once you PAY - Caught 2nd time We crush rule.
On top of that the MEDIA POUND ON IT.
Already Two 1st gen Mx6 owner in the one state have benn caught at over 45km/h the speed limit- which is NOW - a Automatic Court Appearance, Confiscation of the car and licence suspension plus the $2000 fine.
Also some of the looop holes have been closed
and even if you sell the car it carrys over.
For example - IF you speed in your MATES car - Girlfriends car - HER car is CRUSHED
Or in most cases She is now on crush road.

It sounds Unfair and I know you Americans will say it should be against the Consitutioinal rights. But we don't have one instead we try to keep to common sense.

Most people go to court and it's seattled.

only 5 cars have offically been crushed, the offenders were Serial and also unlicenced.




I'm not saying you can't do it and get away with it- But is it worth it. Who knows I mean the area your from could proberly drive from Batlow to Tumut in 4 mins flat in telstar F2 and maybe 3.45second in FE DOHC powered one.

IMO I just don't see the point.
Conversion not hard and just go stand alone it's easier and quicker.
but opening one up and tryign for massive gains with out trying to get attention on N/A

that's like telling me I can drive out of my mates place in Lithgow with Periphrial port 13B Rx-4, it's not going ot happen.

At the most run some slighlty reground camshafts on stock 10.1 bottom end and mild exhuast system.
Use V6 commy muffler ot keep it low and you might get away with it. Keep stock intake system form the F2 - remvoe the resonator box block it - open the airflow meter perminit. leave the air box- run CAI to it.

don't paint anything and No one wil lbe the wiser - Keep all emissions connected or lookign like it is, EG charchol cansiter. it's all Highway patrol know. Cansiter and airflow meter and Pod filter.

Keep the Shit out and make smart modifications - you won't have any trouble.

Advertise and you get done.

Take it from me, It's double demerits time and I drove around Turks place last night past the HP - at 10km/h above the limit gun facing me. No one touches a car that sounds and does not look stupid - EG not lowering a car does massive amount of I'm a ordinary citizen
 
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