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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to post this in 1G however when most of us search audio we search in...Audio.

My 6 is an 88Gt power windows and locks. I am only now planning a modest audio upgrade because most of my performance work is complete, well almost.
I'm using many components that I've aquired over the years and will try and use my budget wisely on the items that I actually want.

I have a few questions at the end of this, some are basic and some are more towards members that have done this or are doing this careerwise or past experience.
I have spent that last week learning about car audio from many sites and reading all of the stickys here. I will say, for those of you that took the time for those write-ups, thank you and I completely understand how you feel when an old thread or a new thread is created asking same/similar questions:)

I have a modest experience with car audio aside from amp/sub installations. With that said here is a current list of my plans, what i have, and what I would like(if my math and ideas are correct)

Head Unit:
Alpine CDA-9856~18wRMSx4 with 6 [email protected] 2v, I also have the iPod cable connected.

Full Range Speakers(I stick with Infinity) in pairs:
6953i~2-100wRMS 300wPeak 4Ω 6x9"Reference
6012i~2-60wRMS 180wPeak 4Ω 6½"Reference(I have four of these maybe six)
6412cfp~2-45wRMS 135wPeak 4Ω 4x6"Reference

Amplifiers(These were given, please don't hate on them:)):
Alpine 3526~4/3/2ch 20Wx4rms @ 4Ω
SPL Dk2-620~2ch 620wMAX 150x2 @ 4Ω, 180x2 @ 2Ω, or 360x1 @ 4ΩBridged

Subwoofer/Enclosure(Specs. after extensive research~est.)
Audiobahn ABP122T~Two 12" 4Ω SVC Subs. 800wRMS inside Dual angle tuned BandPass System-->"please click link"
Audiobahn ABP122T - Car Subwoofers Band Pass Enclosures Audiobahn ABP122T 12 Dual Big Window with Suppleather Mirror And Blue Neon


Like I said these are the items I already have here over the years and aside from the Alpine Amp, Everything works. I know little about Amps. but I have been doing my homework and understand impendance, and modest wiring techniques.
My plan is to keep the stock location when installing speakers in the 6.
I know the front use 5" and the rear use 6½" HOWEVER I will be using the 6x9 in the rear via the 6x9" boxes that were in there when I received the car unless there is a problem, then I'd take necessary steps and research how-to's on fitment.
The subs, i'd like to use simply because I have them! Later when $, time, and experience adds up I will more than likely go with a single 12" sub to save weight and space.


Now for a handful of items I want to purchase and a few questions regarding them:cool:

Wiring
Monster 300 Amplifier Power Kit (1000-Watts) - MPC P300 BAP1000 (120974)
Monster 200 Remote Turn-On Cable - MPC P200 S18R-1000 (121080)
Monster 304 XLN® Speaker Cable (4-Conductor) - MPC S304 4C-15M (120981)
Monster 306 XLN® Audio Interconnect (6-Channel) - MPC I306 6C-5M (122024)
Monster 402 XLN® XTREME Subwoofer Speaker Cable (2-Conductor) - MPC S402 SW-250 (121043)
Total= $305

Front Speakers
Polk Audio db501~4-45wRMS 135wPeak 4Ω 5" 2-way $90

Front Speaker Amplification
Alpine 500KTP445 Powerpack~45Wx4 @ 4Ω This connects to my Alpine CDA-9856. Needs pre-ordered @ $120


I am planning on using the powerpack to push the two front speakers continusly. **I would like the rear speakers to also have the 45wRMS but more on that in the question section**

I am still looking for one possibly two amps to run the sub and the rear speakers. What i mean by this is all related to a few questions I couldnt find the information on regarding the Audiobahn subs and general wiring knowledge.


Questions

1. The info. on the subs says 800wRMS but im not certain if this is combined or per sub.(Personally i believe it means combined)(which isn't bad since 4Ω)

If I can clear that question up it will help me decide If I should use the 2ch amplifier @ 150Wx2 4Ω or find a stronger amp. I would much rather match or overpower my current subs than underpower them because of my limited materials. "please assist"

2. I do plan on using a dual amp system. What I would like is an amplifier for my rear speakers and an amplifier for the subs; however I have three setups/questions in mind depending on if it's possible?

A.) I want the powerpack running all 4 full-range speakers @ 45wRMS, with an external amp on the rear speakers 100wRMS whenever I want it.(meaning switchable, turn on the amp and 45Wx2 up front 100Wx2 rear)<---Possible?
B.) If that is not possible then I would like to use preferably a 4ch amp(for later expandability) on the rear speakers.
My question here however is after browsing many quality amps, I struggle to find the correct size. my 6x9" speakers handle 2-100wRMS 300wPeak @ 4Ω. Is it a safe practice to put more than the RMS states to a 3-way full range speaker? Ex: 150Wx2 @ 4Ω on them?
C.) If a.) or b.) is true. How can I wire an in cabin kill switch that does no harm to my equipment and reverts back to only the head unit with or without the powerpack running only the full-range speakers?
This question is derived because of my 4yr old daughter, family trips, cops, or just want to listen to the quality of interior speakers alone/with an extra 45Watts?


Thanks for reading this far, If everyone understands this then reply, like I said these questions can be answered by most members with more experience in Car A/V than I, and by some of the Pros doing this in custom setups day-to-day. Yes there will be Karma:)

~Adam~
 

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I'll answer this in detail later. Right now Justice awaits to be served!!!!!111!!
 

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my comments have nothing to do with your questions, but....

Save your money with overpriced monster cable and spend it on a quality sub. audiobahn is not it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Save your money with overpriced monster cable and spend it on a quality sub. audiobahn is not it.
I appreciate the reply; however I'm sticking with the MonsterCable.

As for the subs, I already stated that they were given to me. I could care less about them but they have been in my garage for a few years and just decided to look them up get the info, use them, and thats all.

As far as subs go they really are the least of my thoughts. The amp is the main thing not the sub. I would much rather spend top dollar on a quality amp such as JL or Alpine then waste money on a sub.
An ideal setup would be to match up a w7 12" or an Alpine typeR 12" to a nice JL amp but then I'm broke for a while. a long while.

My preference right now is quality sound and great components, just because my "current subs" are substandard:) it wont matter because I know my foundation(wiring/battery) Signal(head unit+/-powerpack) and speaker components(interior) are more than enough to accomadate almost any decision i make in the future regarding amps and subs.

Right now Justice awaits to be served!!!!!
What? LOL are you reffering to L&O SVU or???
 

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Sure. Justiced has been served momentarily... so I've been afforded the time to dispense some advice over the 1nt3rw3bs. I may have to bounce on a moments notice of evil rears its ugly head. FYI...... ;)

1). If its labled 800 RMS on the back of the sub, that means its PER sub. They'd never mean on a "dual sub setup"

(1 "A" guess you can call it) - Of course its possible, why wouldn't it be? :confused: No having more power for the speakers is perfectly fine. Better to have too much then too little. Too little power means you'll likely push the amp past its limits into something called "clipping", which translates to fried speakers and subs quite quickly.
A) I'd give it the power pack a shot before taking things to the next step.

Yes you can create cabin kill switch. I've done this myself.. ITs a bit more techincal when you have an amp to worry about too, but if you're genuinely unsatisfied with the power you get from the "power pack" I'll walk you through everything
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the input.
there are no markings however on back of the subs. i took off the plate and peered in its just the info i found online stating 800w. if they are 800w each then my 150Wx2 @4ohms is not gonna do much and id be better off using it on the rear 6x9" speakers right?

im just trying to figure out if my 6x9's are 2-100w rms 300w Peak what is an ideal amp to use on them @ 4ohms>? crutchfield advisor told me not to go than 25-50% over the max rms value. meaning 125-150 watts per speaker. does that sound correct?

If so, then my choices for the rear speakers in order are: 1.) My Dk2-620 2.) The Alpine MRP-F600 or 3.) The Alpine PDX-2.150
using my amp on the rear speakers would definitly give me more money now to buy a better amp for the current Audiobahn subs and leave much more room for a better single 12" Sub later.

Regardless, i'm ordering the powerpack. thats a given!
Yes I do want an in cabin kill switch which would do both/either kill the amps(reverting the speakers all to the power pack) or kill only the subs(leaving the powerpack running the speakers) or kill the amp running the subs(leaving one amp for the rear speakers and the powerpack on the fronts). Will you help me with this? maybe a wiring diagram do all three of these scenarios, also what switches/fuses/etc will I need?

Graham, what is your profession? Lawyer? Judge? or just like watching these shows?
 

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Thanks for the input.
there are no markings however on back of the subs. i took off the plate and peered in its just the info i found online stating 800w. if they are 800w each then my 150Wx2 @4ohms is not gonna do much and id be better off using it on the rear 6x9" speakers right?
yeah you're wasting your time if you plan on using that amp. That amp is well suited for your 6x9's. Or if you wanted you could have all four speakers powered off that amp, provided its 2 ohms stable. However your speakers system would only be a two channel, as in no fade controls or else: no balance controls, your choice. But you could potentially have two speakers per channel, as that would give you two ohms each. make sense?


im just trying to figure out if my 6x9's are 2-100w rms 300w Peak what is an ideal amp to use on them @ 4ohms>? crutchfield advisor told me not to go than 25-50% over the max rms value. meaning 125-150 watts per speaker. does that sound correct?
No you can use as big of an amp as you want. I used to use a 2500 watt RMS amp to power a little 150watt RMS 6" sub... there is no HONEST rule for "too big of an amp" You just need to know the subs limits, as the amp will dish out more then the sub can ever possibly take. Just so long as you know that, its fine. Putting TOO much power into a sub rarely destroys it unless you go crazy, its when the amp is at the end of its rope and sends a "distorted" signal to to the sub: thats the problem. When a sub is blown, this is the cause for it 80-90% of the time. I wont get into that from a technical standpoint as it can easily get very over-whelming, but yeah... keep that in mind. So you always want the amp to be working in its comfort zone.
If so, then my choices for the rear speakers in order are: 1.) My Dk2-620 2.) The Alpine MRP-F600 or 3.) The Alpine PDX-2.150
using my amp on the rear speakers would definitly give me more money now to buy a better amp for the current Audiobahn subs and leave much more room for a better single 12" Sub later.
I really hate Alpine speakers, I find them very brash and harsh sounding. Vocals are the only thing that sound natural through them I find, I find the tweeters improperly crossed over and very pronounced. but to each their own I guess.
Regardless, i'm ordering the powerpack. thats a given!
Yes I do want an in cabin kill switch which would do both/either kill the amps(reverting the speakers all to the power pack) or kill only the subs(leaving the powerpack running the speakers) or kill the amp running the subs(leaving one amp for the rear speakers and the powerpack on the fronts). Will you help me with this? maybe a wiring diagram do all three of these scenarios, also what switches/fuses/etc will I need?
You'll need a few rocker switches, but we'll cross that path when we get there. I dont think we'd need that much... perhaps a kill switch for the sub amp, and that should be good. After you get the Power pack, let me know what your opinions are... to switch from the power pack to the amp will ad a lot of wiring and trouble... I dont think it would be worth it, but if you REALLY wanted to go that route I could help.
Graham, what is your profession? Lawyer? Judge? or just like watching these shows?
A 26 year old Judge? LOL :lol: no I used to own my own car & home audio company when I was 17, but the Calgary market place is fucking BRUTAL to get into, so it closed quite quickly due to a huge lack of sales to existing inventory (we could only buy the subs & speakers in batch orders).

BIG fast forward Im now working as an apprentice Millwright for a company that builds stuff for Nasa and the US military, but thanks to this reccession that was put on hold, now I just pay the bills chauffeuring since its grad/wedding season. Hopefully things will pick up so I can continue my apprenticeship before the year is out.
I generally dont watch TV, perhaps a total of 1-2hrs worth this year. Sometimes I watch the food network for new cooking ideas but thats really rare.
:shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mx6MaZTer
If so, then my choices for the rear speakers in order are: 1.) My Dk2-620 2.) The Alpine MRP-F600 or 3.) The Alpine PDX-2.150
using my amp on the rear speakers would definitly give me more money now to buy a better amp for the current Audiobahn subs and leave much more room for a better single 12" Sub later.

I really hate Alpine speakers, I find them very brash and harsh sounding. Vocals are the only thing that sound natural through them I find, I find the tweeters improperly crossed over and very pronounced. but to each their own I guess.
I must have written this wrong, my bad. I already have Infinity speakers, I myself wouldnt buy alpine speakers.(I do Love there head units, the only ones i use:)) I was reffering to there amps. the MRP-F600 is 100Wx4 @4ohms, the PDX-2.150 is a 2ch 125Wx2 @4ohm amp. However listening to what you said, the SPL amp i have would be ideal for my 6x9's.

yeah you're wasting your time if you plan on using that amp. That amp is well suited for your 6x9's. Or if you wanted you could have all four speakers powered off that amp, provided its 2 ohms stable. However your speakers system would only be a two channel, as in no fade controls or else: no balance controls, your choice. But you could potentially have two speakers per channel, as that would give you two ohms each. make sense?
That makes sense, however I would like to keep my head unit in control of the fade&balance. I also want to keep the 6x9's at 4ohms. So here's my ultimate question.
How do i get the powerpack to supply 45Watts to all four speakers (two front 5" and two rear 6x9") and also use my 150Wx2 amp only on the two rear 6x9's? I'm not stupid I know that it doesnt make the rear speakers have 150+45x2. Im saying I want the amp to be able to take over when i want it switched on.

After you get the Power pack, let me know what your opinions are... to switch from the power pack to the amp will ad a lot of wiring and trouble... I dont think it would be worth it, but if you REALLY wanted to go that route I could help
I appreciate you offering to help already. Since the release date on the powerpack is ETA: 5/15/2009 and Im just getting everything ready in advance-minus the powerpack, I already have a dual amp install kit so one amp for the 6x9's, and one amp for the current pair of Audiobahn 12".

What I need to find is a nice amp that will power the pair of 12"s 4ohm per channel, and when I get rid of them be able to Power a Single 12" DVC Sub.
any reccomendations on sub or amp?
from reading there are basically two options in a DVC sub. 2 or 4 Ohm. which would be better for A.) sound clarity and B.) Wiring configurations?
 

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I must have written this wrong, my bad. I already have Infinity speakers, I myself wouldnt buy alpine speakers.(I do Love there head units, the only ones i use:)) I was reffering to there amps. the MRP-F600 is 100Wx4 @4ohms, the PDX-2.150 is a 2ch 125Wx2 @4ohm amp. However listening to what you said, the SPL amp i have would be ideal for my 6x9's.


That makes sense, however I would like to keep my head unit in control of the fade&balance. I also want to keep the 6x9's at 4ohms. So here's my ultimate question.
How do i get the powerpack to supply 45Watts to all four speakers (two front 5" and two rear 6x9") and also use my 150Wx2 amp only on the two rear 6x9's? I'm not stupid I know that it doesnt make the rear speakers have 150+45x2. Im saying I want the amp to be able to take over when i want it switched on.


I appreciate you offering to help already. Since the release date on the powerpack is ETA: 5/15/2009 and Im just getting everything ready in advance-minus the powerpack, I already have a dual amp install kit so one amp for the 6x9's, and one amp for the current pair of Audiobahn 12".

What I need to find is a nice amp that will power the pair of 12"s 4ohm per channel, and when I get rid of them be able to Power a Single 12" DVC Sub.
any reccomendations on sub or amp?
from reading there are basically two options in a DVC sub. 2 or 4 Ohm. which would be better for A.) sound clarity and B.) Wiring configurations?
Wiring really isn't going to be a big deal as far as deciding on an amplifier pushing power to the sub(s).

If you are using one 2 ohm sub, you want a mono amplifier rated at 2 ohms. It'd be the same for a four ohm amp and sub (single subwoofer configuration). If you are using more than one subwoofer, you want a dual channel amplifier rated at the ohms necessary for the subwoofers.

If you are going to have just one sub in the future, IMO, your best bet would be to get a dual channel amplifier that is bridgeable, rated at 4 ohm per channel. That way, when you switch to a single sub, you can utilize all the power that can be pushed out of that amplifier by bridging it down to 2 ohm to power a single 2 ohm subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
would a dvc 2ohm sub connected to a 2ch amp bridged and stable at 2ohms be correct? i'm thinking no, because if there are two voice coils 2ohms each then that equals 4ohms right?

same thing if I had a DVC 4ohm sub Wouldnt I need to have a 2ch amp able to be bridged and stable at 8ohms?
If thats all correct then I think I need to find a 2ohm dvc 12" sub and an amp thats going to put power out at 4ohms when bridged. I think.???
 

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subs are DVC's for this reason basically: Wiring options. The second not so big reason is so that if you fry one coil, you still have another.

With that, two voice coils (lets say 4 ohms each) put in PARALLEL would HALF the resistance right? Therefore you'd end up with a 2 ohm load.

Now you were to wire those same 4 ohm coils in a SERIES, you'd double the resistance. Thats because you are adding the ohmage resistance from one coil and compounding it with the pre-existing resistance of the second coil. Therefore? you'd get 8ohms.

If you wanted to power a DVC sub with dual 4 ohm coils, but your amp would only do 4ohms bridged, what you would do then is just use one voicecoil, since one and one only is the 4 ohms you'd want.
Lets say you needed a 4ohm stable amp to power two DVC subs, with dual 4 ohm coils. What you would do is 1 of 2 options.
A) Wire each subs VC's in parallel, thus having each sub have a finished resistance of 2 ohms per sub (for each of the subs). Now, remember that compounding resistance thing I talked about? you'd then want to run both subs in a series to create a 4ohm load for the amp to handle.
B) Alternatively you could wire each subs VC's in a series and end up an 8ohm load per sub. Then you could wire each of the subs in parallel to achieve a 4 ohm load.
Follow me?

MOst 2&4 channel amps are stable at either 2 or 4 ohms bridged. So keep what I said in mind when decided on what to do.

The ohmage rating of a sub does not have anything to do with how good it'll sound. When manufacterers change the ohmage rating on a SVC or DVC sub, that has a snow balling effect that effects other things that react electromagenetically within the sub, but those are fairly minimal, and most companies factor that into the design, so it doesn't matter if you buy a 2,4 or 8ohm sub: they'll work in the exact same box, and provide you with the exact same output.

The only thing to consider towards that^ is what ohmage rating would work best for your amp in question.

Anyway.... before I get into answering that last post you made before this one, I'll call it a night. If I have the time I'll answer it tommorow hopefully before supper.
 

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I appreciate the reply; however I'm sticking with the MonsterCable.

As for the subs, I already stated that they were given to me. I could care less about them but they have been in my garage for a few years and just decided to look them up get the info, use them, and thats all.

As far as subs go they really are the least of my thoughts. The amp is the main thing not the sub. I would much rather spend top dollar on a quality amp such as JL or Alpine then waste money on a sub.
An ideal setup would be to match up a w7 12" or an Alpine typeR 12" to a nice JL amp but then I'm broke for a while. a long while.

My preference right now is quality sound and great components, just because my "current subs" are substandard:) it wont matter because I know my foundation(wiring/battery) Signal(head unit+/-powerpack) and speaker components(interior) are more than enough to accomadate almost any decision i make in the future regarding amps and subs.



What? LOL are you reffering to L&O SVU or???
I know Im going to come across as a pompous asshole, but thats really not my intentions.

Spending 300 on wiring is absolutely insane. Sure, wiring makes a difference, but when you put a percentage on wiring to quality speakers, there is no comparison. Going to a local place and picking up the lengths you need from them will be much cheaper then a kit, and will sound almost identical.

There is more options then infiniti, alpine, and JL. For the price, you can do so much better then a w7. Alpine Type R's are one of the worst subs made, but you couldnt tell that from the price. Ive never had a problem buying a real quality used sub, you just have to stay away from the ones you would find at best buy.

Saying the foundation is going to make up for bad components is like putting a aston martin frame on a taurus. The wiring and signal do nothing if the final product is inferior.
 

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I know Im going to come across as a pompous asshole, but thats really not my intentions.

Spending 300 on wiring is absolutely insane. Sure, wiring makes a difference, but when you put a percentage on wiring to quality speakers, there is no comparison. Going to a local place and picking up the lengths you need from them will be much cheaper then a kit, and will sound almost identical.

There is more options then infiniti, alpine, and JL. For the price, you can do so much better then a w7. Alpine Type R's are one of the worst subs made, but you couldnt tell that from the price. Ive never had a problem buying a real quality used sub, you just have to stay away from the ones you would find at best buy.

Saying the foundation is going to make up for bad components is like putting a aston martin frame on a taurus. The wiring and signal do nothing if the final product is inferior.
I agree...Monster Cable, just like Bose, is overrated BS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Saying the foundation is going to make up for bad components is like putting a aston martin frame on a taurus. The wiring and signal do nothing if the final product is inferior.
I am clearly not saying that I will in anyway be making up for bad components via an excellent wiring foundation.
For the same matter I am not planning on using "bad" components! Sure I have what I have right now and I am just getting into Car A/V so please do not flame me for using what I already own.
I'm sure when you were just starting out and had a few items already owned, no budget and just knew what you would buy one day...You used what you had, bought the quality items to power them and also be used to really take care of your ideal setup.

I guess you can call it brand loyalty or personal experience. I have used MonsterCable in my Home, for my iPod/iPhone, and on my TV's. Yes its expensive; it works. Monster Performance Car

So yah, its a great foundation, that if i ever wanted to, I wouldnt think twice about pulling every wire out and installing the same wiring in another ride. Would you take some regular wires and do the same with confidence? probably not but I dont know, maybe you'd just buy more wires...

$305 covers everything I need in the wiring dept. with a little extra, the multi-amp install kit. 6in1 RCA cables, speaker wires, remote wire, fuses, crimpless terms. etc...
I'm happy with that.:)

Look, I'm not a huge fan of the BestBuy off the shelf stuff either, when it comes to infinity I have purchased from bestbuy. Simply because they were in stock. I have many cars experience with them and even without the amp I love how they sound and was always asked if i had tens in the trunk:lol:
Grand Caravan, Olds Sillouette, Olds Alero, Subaru Outback, two Jeep XJ's, even my two GG's(grocery getters)(Plymouth Reliant K and a Dodge Aries) these all had their speakers replaced with Infinity.

Now my Mx6's turn. so all I realy need to find is a good amp that will power my "bad components" subs. and later on find myself a single 12" sub/enclosure powered by the same amp. after that I would just upgrade the amp as needed.

I dont have Focal money guys so It's not that I dont agree with you. It is just that I'm not spending the money for a system that personally is just going to weigh my car down:lol: and I'm not competeing with anything!
I like the 12" DVC 4ohm Rockford Fosgate Power StageI Sub. It's $399 compared to it's younger brother the $249 Punch StageIII.
 

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wow. All were trying to say is, there are LOTS of better companies out there then Monster cable, abiet without the stupid price tags.
Stinger, Streetwires, Audiopipe and numerous other companies make fantasic cables for but a fraction of the cost. If you want to toss your money away buying stupidly priced cables, knock yourself man, seriously go right on a head. :rolleyes:
But why spend $300 on cables when you can spend $50-$100 on the EXACT SAME THING??
Various 3rd party (not affiliated with ANY company) testing organizations have done extensive testing on various properties such as how well they block electrical noise, their resistivity parimeters (for speaker wise) cross inductance, cross capactance (things you probably dont know about) And were monster cable wires any better then the Circuit city type in house brands?
No. They weren't. Absolutely dead average with all of the other very low end ones. Keep that mind before whipping out that credit card for any more purchases. ;)
Any body in the sound recording business will tell you the exact same thing.


Dont get me wrong, if you already OWN the wires may as well use them right? but being a fan towards Monster cable in general, you may as well be a fan of some gloriously overpriced $500k Lada's, and claiming they can eat Ferraris for breakfast.
:eek:
 

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I actually prefer XIOS cabling. Works well and haven't had a problem with them.
 

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The only piece of Monster wiring I have is for my guitar, and that's only because it is guaranteed for life against any kind of breaking. Only then is it worth the extra 50% in cost.

The last thing you need to be doing with that money is blowing it on wiring, especially since your paying for the name brand, and could spend less there to get better system components. Not trying to sound like an ass, but everyone else in this thread does know what they are talking about when it comes to car audio.
 

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I will say this...the only wiring that was up to snuff with cost was the old phoenix gold wiring...nowadays, shit comes from all the same plants in China
 
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