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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OKAY, I CHANGED MY O2 SENSORS. THAT HELPED MILAGE ALOT BUT POWER ONLY A LITTLE(I POSTED A WHILE AGO "WEIRD POWER CURVE"). I STILL HAVE NEXT TO NO POWER BELOW 4300 RPM OR SO, THEN IT KICKS IN HARD. WHAT ELSE CAN IT BE??? PLUGS N WIRES MAYBE??? HELP PLEASE!!!
 

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BLUMX6 said:
OKAY, I CHANGED MY O2 SENSORS. THAT HELPED MILAGE ALOT BUT POWER ONLY A LITTLE(I POSTED A WHILE AGO "WEIRD POWER CURVE"). I STILL HAVE NEXT TO NO POWER BELOW 4300 RPM OR SO, THEN IT KICKS IN HARD. WHAT ELSE CAN IT BE??? PLUGS N WIRES MAYBE??? HELP PLEASE!!!
So let's move on to the VRIS system.

There are two sets of butterfly valves. The #1 valve is located on the passenger-side of the intake while the #2 set is located right behind the throttle body.

The valves switch like this:

0-3250: both closed
3250-4250: #1 open, #2 closed
4250-6250: both open
6250-fuel cut: both closed

Since your power delivery seems incorrect below 4250, either the #1 valve is not opening or the #2 valves are always open.

First test: put a scrap of paper between the #1 lever and it's stop post. Start the car and take it for a blast down the road. When you get back, if the valve opened, the paper should have fallen out. If it's still there, the valve never opened. There might be a bad solenoid, a bad vacuum motor, vacuum lines etc.

Second test: look carefully at the #2 valve shaft with the engine running. Is it "open" (i.e. is the shaft against it's stop or is it being pulled all the way back by the vacuum motor?)

If it's being pulled back, disconnect the vacuum line to the actuator vacuum motor. If it springs closed, the solenoid for the #2 VRIS is likely jammed and is always applying vacuum to the motor. Try, then, disconnecting the electrical connector at the solenoid (turn off the ignition before doing this) and re-connect the vacuum line to the motor. Restart it and watch the motor. If the valve still pulls in, the solenoid is bad. If it doesn't you've got a short in the wiring back to the PCM or the PCM itself has a defective VRIS driver. (Note: when you restart with the #2 solenoid disconnected, most likely you'll see a check engine light come on. ignore it: the PCM tested the #2 solenoid and found it missing...no surpise there since you disconnected it.)

If the #2 valves aren't being pulled open, try the paper-trick with it like you did with the #1 valve. Let us know how that goes.

If this all checks out okay, then you might want to run some VAF checks... The fact that it's very definitely at about 4300 that the power returns to normal signals most likely it's a #2 VRIS problem. And since the power is there and doesn't drop away at that RPM, it suggests the valves are open when they shouldn't be.

Good luck,
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
WOULDN'T THAT TRIGGER A TROUBLE CODE ON THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT? THE WHOLE VRIS THING IS STILL REALLY CONFUSING. I THINK IT IS THE PROBLEM THO. I'M GONNA GO CHECK NOW. IS THERE AN EASIER WAY TO DETERMINE IF ITS SOLENOID OR WHAT?
THANX AGAIN MAN. YOU'RE A BIG HELP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK, I COULDNT WAIT TIL TOMORROW, SO I JUST MESSED WITHIT FOR A WHILE(AFTER 1am). THE PAPER TRICK RESULTS: VRIS#1: PAPER STILL THERE. VRIS#2: PAPER GONE. ALSO IN MY TRAVELS I PUTZED AROUND WITH THE VAC LINES UNDER THE SOLENOIDS AND ACCIDENTALLY PULLED ONE OFF IT'S IN-LINE TEE. I COULDN'T FIX IT IN THE DIMMLY LIT PARKING LOT I WAS IN AT THE TIME SO I FIXED IT WHEN I GOT HOME. ON MY WAY HOME, THE ENGINE FELT MUCH SMOOTHER. NO VTEC-LIKE KICK LIKE I HAD BEEN GETTING. NOT 100% SURE IF IT WAS SMOOTHER GOOD OR SMOOTHER BAD. BUT THE PAPER I PUT IN #2 IN THAT PARKING LOT STAYED IN TIL I GOT HOME. MEANING IT NEVER OPENED. NOW I FIXED THE VAC LINE, THE KICK IS BACK, THE PAPER GOES AWAY AGAIN. I'M GONNA DISCONNECT THAT SAME VAC LINE AGAIN TOMORROW TO SEE IF IT'S COSTING ME LOW END OR GIVING ME HIGH END. HOPE THIS FEEDBACK HELPS YOU HELP ME. LET'S TRY AND FIGURE THIS OUT. THANX AGAIN.
FINGERS CROSSED,
NICK
BLUMX6

[Edited by BLUMX6 on 11-13-2000 at 01:19 AM]
 

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The PCM will set a VRIS code 41 or 46 only if there's an electrical fault with the solenoid or the wiring, not if the solenoid is stuck one way or the other.

From your tests, it seems like the #2 is working properly but that the #1 isn't opening. Not what I would have expected, but worth persuing.

Try this: on the front-side of the manifold, on the intake runner closest to the distributor (cylinder #6) are two vacuum ports. One goes to the FPRC valve, the other to the cruise control. Disconnect the cruise line and run a longish piece of vacuum line from that fitting to the vacuum motor for the #1 valve. With the engine running, this valve should pull in. If it doesn't, the vacuum motor may be bad. If it does, the solenoid for the #1 valve might be jammed or bad.

If it pulls in, remove the solenoid from the car. Check the resistance across the terminals. If memory serves, you should see something like 12-16 ohms across the terminals. It might be that the windings have a high resistance - high enough to cause the solenoid not to pull in but not high enough to trip a code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
IT DOES PULL IN. THE DEALER SAID $160 FOR A NEW SOLENOID. HOW CAN I TEST THE SOLENOID OR POSSIBLY FIX IT? IS THERE A MORE UNDERSTANDABLE WAY TO TEST THEM? THAT WAY MADE ME GO CROSSEYED.(lol) THANX AGAIN!
 

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Well, you can:

Check the electrical condition:
- check the resistance across the two terminals. Look for 12-16 ohms at "room temp".

Check the functional condition:
- take the solenoid off the car
- blow into one of the vacuum-line ports on the solenoid. IIRC, you should not feel air coming out of the other vacuum line port
- use two jumper wires and connect the solenoid directly across the battery
- again, blow into one of the ports. you should now hear/feel air flowing out the other port

As I said, I hope I'm recalling this correctly. It may be that with no power, you should be able to blow through it and when power is applied, you shouldn't. Regardless, it should switch when power is applied.


[Edited by Mike 94PGT on 11-13-2000 at 03:49 PM]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I DONT HAVE AN OHM METER. NOW WHAT? AND HOW DO I GET THE SOLENOID OFF THE CAR?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OH YEAH, I FOUND THE VAC LINE GOING TO THE CRUISE CONTROL. IF I CONNECTED THIS TO THE VAC MOTOR DIRECTLY(RESULTING IN ALWAYS OPEN) SHOULD I BE BETTER? IT'S OPEN FROM 3250-6250 ANYWAY. THATS THE REAL POWER BAND ANYWAY,RIGHT?

ALSO WHILE SNOOPING AROUND BY MY THROT BODY, I FOUND A HOMELESS VAC LINE. GOING INTO THE MANIFOLD TO THE LOWER RIGHT OF THE OPENING OF THE T/B. IF YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT INTO IT. I THINK IT USED TO BE CONNECTED TO THE OEM AIRBOX, WHICH I NO LONGER HAVE. IS THIS ANY RELATION AT ALL? THE AIRBOX IS PART OF INDUCTION, AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT variable resonance INDUCTION system. AT LEAST YOU SEE MY LOGIC, BUT IS IT RELATED? SHOULD I PLUG IT OR APPLY VAC OR APPLY BLOW? THERE'S NO SUCTION ON IT NOW.

I ALSO FOUND ANOTHER ONE (HOMELESS) BEHIND THE VRIS SOLENOIDS BY THE FIRE WALL. JUST BELOW THE VRIS ACTUALLY. SAME QUESTIONS FOR THIS ONE TOO. EXCEPT I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THIS ONE CAME FROM.
THANX...-NICK,BLUMX6
 

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BLUMX6 said:
OH YEAH, I FOUND THE VAC LINE GOING TO THE CRUISE CONTROL. IF I CONNECTED THIS TO THE VAC MOTOR DIRECTLY(RESULTING IN ALWAYS OPEN) SHOULD I BE BETTER? IT'S OPEN FROM 3250-6250 ANYWAY. THATS THE REAL POWER BAND ANYWAY,RIGHT?
It's a good test of the vacuum motor at idle. The problem with trying to use it all the time is that at WOT, there's little vacuum in the manifold, so the motor will probably close again. That's why the VRIS system is fed from those two black vacuum chambers under the intake manifold (you can just see them peeking out from under the plenum): they store vacuum and supply the VRIS system, through a one-way check valve, when needed.

ALSO WHILE SNOOPING AROUND BY MY THROT BODY, I FOUND A HOMELESS VAC LINE. GOING INTO THE MANIFOLD TO THE LOWER RIGHT OF THE OPENING OF THE T/B. IF YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT INTO IT. I THINK IT USED TO BE CONNECTED TO THE OEM AIRBOX, WHICH I NO LONGER HAVE. IS THIS ANY RELATION AT ALL? THE AIRBOX IS PART OF INDUCTION, AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT variable resonance INDUCTION system. AT LEAST YOU SEE MY LOGIC, BUT IS IT RELATED? SHOULD I PLUG IT OR APPLY VAC OR APPLY BLOW? THERE'S NO SUCTION ON IT NOW.
Just leave it for now. That "vacuum" line isn't actually a vacuum line at all. It's a fresh-air feed for the EGR solenoids. That line plugs into the airbox so it gets filtered air. If you plug it, the EGR valve won't get the correct air and you'll probably set a code 16.

Ideally, you should have a small filter on there to keep dust and grime out of the EGR solenoids but for now, just leave it.

I ALSO FOUND ANOTHER ONE (HOMELESS) BEHIND THE VRIS SOLENOIDS BY THE FIRE WALL. JUST BELOW THE VRIS ACTUALLY. SAME QUESTIONS FOR THIS ONE TOO. EXCEPT I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THIS ONE CAME FROM.
Hmmm. The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the HVAC (heating, ventilation A/C) vacuum feed. Are your vents working & heater working properly?

Whatever it is, you'll need to find its "home" before trying to further debug why the VRIS doesn't seem to be working right.

Have you had the manifold off recently for, say, valve cover gasket replacement or something? I wonder how that line came off...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
NO I HAVENT EVER HAD THE MANIFOLD OFF.

NO MY A/C DOESN'T KICK ON. IT BLOWS. THE HEAT WORKS GREAT BUT I DONT EVEN FEEL THE A/C COMPRESSOR COME ON. I THINK IT'S THE A/C COMP. RELAY THO.

MAYBE I DISCONNECTED IT BY ACCIDENT EITHER SNOOPING AROUND OR WHILE DOING MY O2's. I DID TRY TO DO THE REAR ONE FROM UP TOP AT FIRST BEFORE I WENT IN THRU THE WHEEL WELL. IT'S SO CRAMMED BACK THERE THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT IS FROM.

WHAT IF I HOOK UP CONSTANT VAC AND TIE IT OPEN(THE #1 VRIS), WOULD IT THEN STAY OPEN? CAN I JUST ZIP TIE IT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
so could i just apply vaccuum and zip-tie it open? what should i do? the dealer wants 160 for a new solenoid. thanx again for all your help. =)
 
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