Mazda MX-6 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
must be proud of yourself... i can change out both tie rod ends, both axles and align the car in under a half hour
 

·
Its not butter?!!!!1
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
^ He obviously is proud of himself... since thats a big accomplishment to him...

did you stop and think perhaps hes just learning how to be a mechanic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
did u get an alignment done on it?

congrats on the tie rod job.. that can be a hard job even for someone that knows what they are doing.:wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
haha yah i forgot to buy pullers so i ended up hammering it

oh yah i am very proud since i took the liberty to measure form center pin to end to make sure my max toe in is proper

iam also proud that i completely understand all steering angles and recieved a 92% on the suspensiona nd steering section of my apprentice exam and i am fully confident if you gave me any alignment apperatice i could succesfully use it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Now you gotta fix that torque steer
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
fixing it right

Mr.JasonBH said:
Now you gotta fix that torque steer
The cure:
 

·
Its not butter?!!!!1
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
Samol_hok said:
haha yah i forgot to buy pullers so i ended up hammering it

oh yah i am very proud since i took the liberty to measure form center pin to end to make sure my max toe in is proper

iam also proud that i completely understand all steering angles and recieved a 92% on the suspensiona nd steering section of my apprentice exam and i am fully confident if you gave me any alignment apperatice i could succesfully use it

whoah.. you have way more mechanical skill then I do at this point..


Kirk.. where the heck did you find that?

man oh man.. I wish I had that for my 1989 PGT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
797 Posts
Good to see that some people can do this work themselves, I can just do the very VERY simple stuff and nothing erlse. I just had my sway bar control arm and water pump replaced and the labour was the greater of the two costs so I envy those that can defeat the labour costs. Congrats man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
with a box full of tools, some "dumb" forum questions, and a couple scuffed knuckles... and you TOO can become a mx6 mechanic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
some people use the term dumb mechanic to easy how ever its another thing to talk to someone who studys automotive science

oh yah kirk
you were saying that guru thing is awsome do you have and cross sections and stuff on it

oh yah postive camber change during compression is because of the negetive scrub radius created from teh true vertical load of the tires and the SAI steering axis inclinations intersecting above the contactign surface

i wish i cuodl draw you a picture
 

·
Its not butter?!!!!1
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
AdderMk2 said:
with a box full of tools, some "dumb" forum questions, and a couple scuffed knuckles... and you TOO can become a mx6 mechanic
isn't that how you got started?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
Samol_hok said:
some people use the term dumb mechanic to easy how ever its another thing to talk to someone who studys automotive science
Once you understand how things work, it's an easy thing to diagnose and repair.

sam said:
oh yah kirk
you were saying that guru thing is awsome do you have and cross sections and stuff on it
http://www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/g8-3.jpg

http://www.sonic.net/garyg/zonc/TechnicalInformation/images/Figure1.gif

A pretty good explanation found here
Torque sensing diffs direct torque to each HS based on available traction. In other words, there is some feedback from the wheels to the differential to guide the torque distribution. The Hummer uses a Torsen, made by Zexel-Gleason. The Torsen name comes from TORque SENsing. The Torsen is not the only torque sensing diff around.

The Torsen design is based on worm gears, rotating on different axes. It is extremely difficult to describe w/o a picture. Each side gear is a worm gear splined to the HS. There are 3 sets of planetary worm gears (called element gears), perpendicular to the side gear axis. Each set consists of two worm gears, connected via spur gears, and mated with each side gear. Thus, the two side gears are interconnected via the element worm gears.

As traction at each wheel changes, the pressure between the element worm and side gears change, causing the element pairs to counter-rotate, biasing the torque to the other side. Unlike the other desings, torque sensors (TS) work in just about all conditions. Even if the wheels are turning at different rates (turing, going over bumps, etc), they still shuffle the torque around based on traction. LS units and lockers try to maintain rotational speed which is not the same thing.

Going back to the torque bias approach, Torsens can be designed have a ratio of 2:1 to 6:1. I think the Hummer's are around 4:1. Hence, we can get 4x the amount of torque to the traction wheel ALWAYS. Lockers are beneficial in a very narrow window of operation. Torsens are also very smooth in operation, quite suitable (if not the best) for street/ foul weather driving.

The limitation is that they are not lockers. If one wheel is in the air it takes very little torque to spin. 4x of very little is still not enough to get moving. Hence, you can get stuck where a locker would keep you going. To overcome this limitation, we can apply a technique similar to a LS unit. By applying the brakes, we increase the torque input to the low traction side from say 0 to X lbs-ft. The other side now sees 4*X lbs-ft. by applying enough throttle and brake, we can get going always. This is how we can "lock" the differential.

For Hummers, note that this 4x torque is HS torque, before the hubs. since the hubs are gear reducing about 2:1, we actually get about 8x torque to the wheel. The brake/throttle works for just about any TS unit, however, it works extremely well for Hummers.

When we do get wheel spin, you can feel a wiggling sensation. This is the signal that you have exceeded the traction at a wheel and the Torsen cannot bias enough power to the other wheel. The wiggling comes from the shuffling of torque from one side to the other as the worm gears bind up and then release. This can be detrimental to the life of the diffs and hence, you should limit wheel spin speed. Time to modulate to "lock" the diffs.

Of course, the brake throttle technique is not as effective at a speed b/c we are creating a lot of drag. Lockers excel at crawling (like Torsens) but are also good for mud, sand hill climbs, etc. Torsens also have a lot of internal friction (inherent to the design) causing drag.

Note that Torsens are not limited slip differentials. They are torque sensors. They are totally different beasts. LS units try to limit slip between HS in an effort to improve power to the ground. Torsens bias torque between HS to improve power to the ground. In almost all situations, torque sensors put the most power to the ground compared to any other design.​




sam said:
oh yah postive camber change during compression is because of the negetive scrub radius created from teh true vertical load of the tires and the SAI steering axis inclinations intersecting above the contactign surface
I'm not certain there's such a thing as a McPherson Strut suspension with negative scrub radius.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
thats awsome thanks man!
i never thought that helical cuts would be distributed that way in side the differential but yah it makes sense that it would be far more stronger in design how ever one would think that helical designs creat end thrust so i could see it having some tight clearances and specific sized washers in place
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
SleepCounter said:
I'm not certain there's such a thing as a McPherson Strut suspension with negative scrub radius.
im very very sure all (road approved) vehicles have negetive scrubs radius
it is far safer

http://www.jags.org/TechInfo/2001/08Aug01/scrubradius.jpg

take a look at the apposing diagrams
the srub radius is the amount of axial movement in the suspension

negetive scrub shows the steering axis inlination (SAI) intersecting above the road surface alowing postive camber change this allows stability

how ever positive scrub shows SAI and vertical tire line intersectin under the road surface (this is waht happens when you lower your car with out proper change in control arms) it alows a negitive camber change = less stability how ever more adherence to cornering forces

it basically means as you go towards more positive scrub you will have the POINT of LOAD moved further away from the POINT OF CONTACT

:jump: actually next meet ill lend some steering and suspension module for anyone that whats to borrow it
 

·
Its not butter?!!!!1
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
^ count me in... holy crap I should have taken that course Samol... your getting to be quite the pro at this.. whats the entrace requirements for the course?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
graham they would except you

you have to right a entrance exam wich is easy as hell

requirements is like math 30 not even
 

·
Its not butter?!!!!1
Joined
·
4,968 Posts
^ which I dont have. I graduated with math 30 applied... not pure (or math 33 or whatever its called these days) .. even then.. its been so many years I forget everything. Asides from that.. I'd love to join
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
The mind is the second thing to go

Graham_A_M said:
its been so many years I forget everything.
Wait'll you get old!!
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top