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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok heres a couple of paragraphs out of a book written by A.GRaham Bell. and i quote
blah blah blah
THis leads us to what i regard as the most horrible design of all time, the heron head. it works just fine on 2000 rpm diesels, but used on a petrol engine it is nothing like so good. The design utilises a flat faced head without aq combustion chamber.Instead , combustion takes place in in a combustion chamber cast into the piston crown. ford use this design in thier so called crossflow Escort and cortina and 3l v6 capri motor. chrysler also use it in thier avenger motors. Having no effective squish area, this design. suffers chronic ignition problems. The avenger for example is only hapy with 46-47deg spark advance.if u must stick with this design rather than use a head with combustion chambers machined into it( very expensive), there are a few principles to keep in mind. THe first is to keep the inlet systen on the small side. use a small carbie venturi and reduced port diameter to keep gas speed high. profile grind the inlet port but keap it relatively rough. machine the top of the cylender block to bring the pistons to around 0.005-0.007in from the deck. this will induce some squish effect. i have found that reccessing the valves about0.060in into the head inproves not only the gas flow but i suspect the combustion. the shrouding of of the valves possibly induces some sort of venturi effect, which aid vapourisation and homogenisation of the mixture. the early ford 1600gt had small combustion chambers machined into the head. this head bis best pensioned off and replaced with a counter bored flat head which will inprove the compression as well. Besides the combustion problem, a basic mecanical problem also exists with the heron design.Because the combustion chamber is in the crownof the piston, the heat path is made longer with thermal distortion thrown in for good measure. piston siezeure is a common place. in fact for this reason sone tuners now build thier 1700cc cross flow ford race engines with flat top pistons that finish up about down the bore 0.280in
ill finish this later cant be ****ed now. but stay tuned for the next epesode hehehe
 
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Um, Buddy.

We don't have heron heads. We don't have pent??? (Spark plug in the middle, I cant think of the term) heads either.

We do have a combustion chamber machined into the head, its small, I'll see if I can dig up pics.

So, back to the drawing board for you.
 

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Re: Re: what to do with our f2ts

monoxidechild said:
alexander graham bell wrote a book about cars in the last century? wierd..;) :p
I thought Glenn Curtiss was Bell's engine man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
FlySwat said:
Um, Buddy.

We don't have heron heads. We don't have pent??? (Spark plug in the middle, I cant think of the term) heads either.

We do have a combustion chamber machined into the head, its small, I'll see if I can dig up pics.

So, back to the drawing board for you.
yeah good call give me a look at the ****er
but also call it what u want its still the same basic desighn
the principal behind it is good but just cant work out for a number of reasons. i been thinking about it heaps and ive got a good idea of how i can get this design to work possibly better than a pent. its gonna take some very big mods but.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
oh also that book was the 2nd updated edition of 4 stroke performance tuning. and alexander graham bell is only human too but maybe ive thaught of somthing no won else has yet. so it doesnt mean the answers arnt there just because somwon else hasnt thaiught of them yet.
 

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Any ones guess as to the point of this thread?

~Chris
 
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imagoonmx6 said:
Any ones guess as to the point of this thread?

~Chris
I think it would make more sense if Beno spoke English instead of Quasi-Australian.

Either way, someone needs to post a picture of the head combustion chamber to straighten this poor mate out. I've got a spare head, but I need to borrow a digital camera.
 

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Save yourself the time flyswat. I have a pic here... (of course theres 2 valves out because I was doing some porting, but you get the idea)

 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
yuck!!
thats all i can say about that head, but thanks anyway rebel.
have u got a pic of the 8v head that i can have a look at. id appreciate it. it would be a kind of semihemi/heron hibrid wouldnt it? i know ford cosworth built one like that and it fast for a 1000cc i think it was a full on race car maybe not as good in 2L but. i was refering to the overall design not ur porting work by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
come on i need that pic im not gonna pull my head off just to look at it yet cause i still need to drive the thing to work every day
no comments yet on what i said aboutr the f2 chambers either us all agree with me onthat or ur worried ill make yas look stupid for thinking it was good. give me some feed back none of my mates know enough about this stuff do have a decent convo about it.
 

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Beno said:

no comments yet on what i said aboutr the f2 chambers .
I'm still trying to work out what exactly you said. Do you have a Russian keyboard?

I caught my Doberman typing on my computer last night..... he made less mistakes (& he's only 7).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
well i failed high school it simply wasnt inportant too me. what was inportant to me was going home and stuffing around with my dirtbike and not wasting my time sitting on my ass learning **** about ****. maybe thats why im 24 and i can sap more power out of a bike than 30-40yr olds that have been tuning race bikes for years. i dont wanna be arrogant but it feels good when im doubted all my life then get to see the confused look on other mechanics faces when thier looking at their bikes thinking why doesnt mine go like that?hehehe
 
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Beno said:
well i failed high school it simply wasnt inportant too me. what was inportant to me was going home and stuffing around with my dirtbike and not wasting my time sitting on my ass learning **** about ****. maybe thats why im 24 and i can sap more power out of a bike than 30-40yr olds that have been tuning race bikes for years. i dont wanna be arrogant but it feels good when im doubted all my life then get to see the confused look on other mechanics faces when thier looking at their bikes thinking why doesnt mine go like that?hehehe
Yup, when I'm broke off my ass, jobless, and seperated from my wife, I'll appreciate the fact that I know how to make a motercycle fast.

You need to balance out your knowledge, or your go nowhere in life. Do you honestly think you will be happy where you are now, in 10 years?

Take this in a good way please, as I don't say this to tear you down, just to get you to re-evaluate your priorities.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Also, hemhem. I do belive that the citizens of the United States of America, surely walk around with a latest edition of the websters dictionary hidden in thier rectal passages.(Assumuming that is the correct term.)
For it seems to be that they have some sort of condition resulting in very unusual stress and discomfort and cannot be satisfied unless every word of the english language is spelt and pernounced with exact precision and accuracy.
And is only used as the intended term specifided by by the dictionary in which it is written.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
well fly swat i can read and write excelently if i try but i prefer to just take shortcuts and use slang i cant be bothered typing all the punctuation and crap. but use can read it and understand im sure. and im just taking the piss like u where about us being quasi australian or what ever. dont take this **** too sreriously im only ****ing with yas.
and i havcnt had this computer for long eithe and i it would take forever fixing aqll my typing mistakes.
@- hehehe
 
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Beno said:
Well FlySwat, I can read and write excellently if I try, but I prefer just to take shortcuts and use slang. I can't be bothered typing all the punctuation and crap, though I'm sure you can read my messages and understand.

I'm just talking messing around, like you were when you called me "quasi-australian". Do not take this seriously.

Also, I haven't had this computer for long either, and it would take forever to fix all my typing mistakes.

@- Hehehe.
There, I translated your post into english. Hopefully other people can read it now.
 

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Wow, this thread is really going somewhere.
 
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