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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm just going over thier site now a rang a distro yesterday who said the system fitted is just over 1G AUD!
that puts it just over the price of a decent after market chip!

this is their FAQ page:
http://www.wolfems.com/Support/FAQ/faq.html

Sum of you who have been following my posts will realize i am researching my best option SC or TURBO....
IM ONTO SUPERCHARGE at the moment and this wolf shit is atractive as i will be adding larger injectors and this unit closly monitors and controls the injectors..

but the reason i jumped over here was this line
Can I remove my air flow meter or mass air flow sensor?
The Wolf systems do not require any type of air flow measurement device. All airflow measuring hardware is built into the system itself. The Wolf systems use speed-density based on manifold absolute pressure, intake air temperature and rpm speed. This provides the most accurate means for processing air flow, and allows the intake to be open and unrestricted. This also allows for atmospheric compensation and elevation differentials.
now with our obstructed air sensor this would b a god sent!
have a look and post your opinions!!!
 

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I talked to them a little over a year ago and the system does not have the control ability to operate the VRIS system. If you plan on dumping the VRIS then it is an option, but it doesn't have the control that you get out of the stock ECU. With the different programable chip that you can use in it it's a good unit. My main reason for not using it was that they didn't think i would be able to get fine enough tunability to pass California's emission test on the dyno with it.
 

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Ask yourself a few of these questions:

1) Will I be building the motor up internally to produce more than about 280HP at the crankshaft in my supercharged application or will I leave the internals alone?

If you answer "leave the internals stock", you don't need to eliminate the stock airflow sensor; turbo KL03s with stock internals are happily turning this kind of power on relatively modest boost levels of 8-10PSI, with the stock PCM and the stock airflow meter. To be sure, there are added fuel system components to take care of the required enrichment under boost, but these are alot less than a complete aftermarket system. The point: the engine internals will put a cap on the amount of power the engine will produce before the VAF becomes an issue in forced-induction applications.

If you are building the motor to produce significantly more, you may wish to pursue getting rid of the VAF, but consider this: Obnox, a 626 owner in Toronto, has a built-KL03 running a turbo and is putting nearly 320HP to the wheels with the VAF and the stock PCM in place with only additional fuel components (additional injectors etc.) He's looking to get rid of his VAF, but this is an example of the extreme power you can get with the VAF in place.

2) What do I expect from the installation?

The Wolf3D doesn't have a factory-style connector on it, so you'll be cutting, splicing and connecting a large number of wires under the dash to get it to work.

Is it able to use all the standard Mazda sensors or does it rely on you roaching in GM sensors (e.g. coolant temp, intake air temp, MAP etc...) Can it use the existing NE1 and NE2 sensors? Will it use the 'G' sensor and thus support SFI or does it only do batch-fire?

Does it have the ability to control external solenoids like the canister purge, the VRIS, the EGR and FPRC or do you have to remove/disable these and other systems of the car?

Does your jurisdiction have emissions testing or is it coming to your area? Will your car be able to pass with the Wolf3D installed? If not, what recourse will the laws allow?

3) How will I tune it?

Speed density is not an easy system to tune. Volumetric efficiency (VE) tables are used that combine several factors like RPM and load to give the PCM a "starting" point for calculating airflow based on MAP and these other factors. These VE tables must be right on or the car won't run right. Can you live with "forever tweaking" the thing because you are constantly uncovering little "holes" in the VE maps as you drive around under varying conditions? Do you have easy & cheap access to a dyno to get the baselining done?

I dunno. Systems like this can be very, very powerful on purpose built, off-road cars if the owner has the time and resources to install & tune it but for all but the most wild street cars, a system like this seems like overkill and a bit masochistic. How about determining what your goals are for the engine (e.g. 280HP at the crank), seeing if the stock system can be made to work with ancillary bits & pieces and if not, then consider going the Wolf3D route.

That's my opinion, FWIW.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mike, nothing but luv for ya buddy!

I was just checking it out but when i read the bit i quoted it reminded me of the complaints ive been reading about our stock sensor.. so it was posted for others interested in it's possible impact on both chip and VAF replacement options (i mean hey,... a plunger type sensor needing to measure resistance by impeeding airflow does sound contradictory) :)

I have recently come across a shop with exp with a 626 and a PGT they'd s/c for track...
I'm looking forward to heading down there for a chat,
any mazda exp is a breakthrough but custom work knowledge was a breakthrough!

but in answer personally:
i dont see going over about 250 - 260 in the near future...
i'd like to see a torque convertor and i'll be saving the penny's, for the leg power that will let me start to sniff those figures. The supercharger.
but even at a boost of 7-8 id want some backup on my field thats where my interest in fuel pumps, extra monitoring and larger injectors comes in.

allowing for a wheel upgrade once the S/c is in that should b the end of my modding needs for quite a while!!
I'll have to take out my creative needs on the interior... lol

<your mentioning of VRIS raises another quuery in my mind is the stock ECU capibale of handling the VRIS under this level of boost? if so is there a "cap" on its ability?>

One question i do still have!
Does this sytem actually cover the same ground as a chip upgrade?

i hope the site was an interesting read at least even though vauge..
 

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Re: Mike, nothing but luv for ya buddy!

1style said:
I was just checking it out but when i read the bit i quoted it reminded me of the complaints ive been reading about our stock sensor.. so it was posted for others interested in it's possible impact on both chip and VAF replacement options (i mean hey,... a plunger type sensor needing to measure resistance by impeeding airflow does sound contradictory) :)
Indeed. Check my sig: for that very reason (i.e. spring loaded plunger induces pressure drop & thus flow impedance while in the process of measuring flow) I designed a system to replace my VAF with a free-flow MAF sensor. 55mm now, but I'm working on a plan to modify my 73mm Vortech MAF to work properly with the system.

So, yes, I understand both the need and desire to get rid of the VAF, but:

1) It doesn't come without a cost in terms of wiring, driveability, tunability etc.

2) On forced-induction applications where all-out HP isn't the goal, the VAF is not really a problem. The engine will easily take 8PSI and make 260-270HP with the VAF in place. Removing it may allow for additional airflow, but without the engine internals & driveline parts to take it, you can't take advantage of that added flow capacity.

I have recently come across a shop with exp with a 626 and a PGT they'd s/c for track...
I'm looking forward to heading down there for a chat,
any mazda exp is a breakthrough but custom work knowledge was a breakthrough!
Excellent. Keep us up to date on any news you get from them.

<your mentioning of VRIS raises another quuery in my mind is the stock ECU capibale of handling the VRIS under this level of boost? if so is there a "cap" on its ability?>
The PCM simply enables two solenoids that act as "air/vacuum switches", and the actuators themselves are pulled in by vacuum. The vacuum is supplied by the engine during times of high manifold vacuum (like at idle) and two vacuum reserve tanks and a check valve help supply vacuum to the system during times of low manifold vacuum (e.g. WOT). With a supercharged engine, the manifold will attain 8PSI gauge pressure, but the check valve should help the reservoirs maintain vacuum during times of boost.

One question i do still have!
Does this sytem actually cover the same ground as a chip upgrade?
The system has ability to far surpass the tuning ability of most chip programmers. The factory PCM is a suitably powerful platform for running an internal combustion engine but it lacks the in-system programmability and the data-logging channels an aftermarket system has. Add to that the fact that only about 3 people in the world have a full understanding of the PCM hardware (undocumented silicon is often tough to figure out!) and software and you end up with "chip upgrades" that typically affect spark timing only. No fooling.
 
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