The toyota shifter rods and forks, the machining work and the steel used is incredible, the quality is insane for a mass produced gearbox for domestic cars.

Almost finished -

Got the light saber out again to get 5th gear back on -

And all finished, one hybrid 4AGZE/3VZFE camry/levin gearbox -

Another thing toyota upgraded, the clutch fork is cast steel in the later boxes -

If anyone is planning on doing this, I would recommend allocating an entire day, it took soul and I about 6 hours to do this. This was the first time we pulled one apart though so it took some figuring out. Also needed to make a special puller to get the first half of the 5th gear off. And if you can help it, dont let the 3 piece 5th gear synchro fall apart, it is not much fun putting it back together!

 

Interesting.....nice write up.

I have to do 5th gear on the E58, as I have a RAV4 ratio to fit. I did read a write up on one of the RAV4 forums about doing that, and the guy that did the work made no mention of the difficulty in removing 5th gear. and as far as I can gather its the same setup. here is a pic of mine from the E58.

The Rav4 box 5th

The tool the guy from the RAV4 site used to get 5th gear off

The syncros

What ratios did you end up with, is it 100% camry gearing now but in a 4AGZE casing ?

IMO thats a better choice anyway....its too bad you cant fit it into an E58.

 

Yep adrian its 100% camry internals.

And I think I can fit all this into an E58, you can just swap the whole rear half of the camry case onto an E58 bell housing half. Much like the g-series mazda boxes, a 323 box is the same back half as a 626 box. This is what I will be doing if I break my box, fix it with a camry box, so I have the bigger gears. I'll also fit an Mfactory torsen at the same time. Of course this may be a while off if my box doesnt break!

 

i have a new wishlist.........

 

these tranny's pretty easy to get in the us do we think? and if you're adapting it to a mazda, why the change of cases? or were adapters already done for the 4AGZE box?

Just curious...could be a good option when I run out of boxes as well, still have 3 to go, so it will be a long time I imagine

 

Relatively easy. You're looking for an MR2 Turbo box, late 90s early 2000s Camry V6 or Solara V6. The Solara V6 is the best choice, in my opinion. Updated synchros and slightly longer gearing.

They aren't cheap, though, unless you find a yard that doesn't know what they have.

 

Great stuff boys. Will speak with you both about this

 

Weight?

Everything I see looks to be 30-50% heavier than an H-type....and the H-type isnt exactly the lightest box out there.

Gavin

 

Everything I see looks to be 30-50% heavier than an H-type....and the H-type isnt exactly the lightest box out there.

Mate, I'm with Soul on this one, you can't have box strength without more weight. It's almost that simple. Pick up a T56 some time ;-)

Fred.

 

hmmmm they r fukin soo heavy but it is hard to have strength with out weight if u rnt makeing big power maybe the same box as jesse has will be beta it is about the size of a h type but it has a bearing plate and big shafts and bearings and u can buy most parts and buy lots of aftermarket parts

 

Never weighed anything, but i'd guesstimate less than 20kgs extra weight in the car.

 

I can pick up a G-series on my own and H series

I can barely pick up most Autos from a 626 fluid or no fluid. mind you i'd say it's due to the converter.

Toyota - I've picked up a MR2 turbo box - it's not THAT MUCH HEAVIER. about 10KG. maybe 15KG at the most. even 5Kg, for some ?
To put in perspective, the toyota box uses in effect thinner casing in some areas but stronger bearing end plates and more effort into making the box adaptable to different cars and different engines.

oh and even the 6 speed from levin is about same as a H box. I found it the same lifting into the wagon, for friend - I was thinking I should install it into my wagon.

Depending on what you break in your gearbox - determines the areas to strengthen.

Toyota as always figure they should overengineer most things. like the Rods in 2JZ - make RB30-RB26 rods look silly ?

The amazing thing I have found is and not surprised either, that other car makers will go about it differently. From honda nissan etc different approach even when racing.

But I would definatly say if you goal is absured amounts of power and drang racing - it's more then likely a good way to go.

Mazda did Nissan ( for obvious reasons - same supplier of gearbox at the time)
increase the size of your normal box - to make it stronger.

Again - mainly cost.


Oh one question.

what series is a 6 speed from last model Celica like a 1998 model. I think it's 2ZZ motor or something.

 

Closely related to the n/a 4age transmission. You don't want it. It's probably stronger than the H-series, but not by a huge margin, and the forks are weak. And it's at least as expensive as an E153.

 

ok, so.....I can swap a 1999 V6 Solora gears/etc, into the mx6 Trans???

Sorry, just a bit confused, as I wouldn't have though that would ever work.

 

No, it's just to highlight the differences between the boxes. Mazda seems to have a habit of underengineering the gearboxes.... well, as Gavin pointed out, they're very light in weight but won't take punishment gracefully.

 

Ok, thats what I assumed! I just skimmed overt the thread, and couldn't figure out why the toyota gear box thread was in a mazda section........
Guess next time I should read! LOL

And, yes, I wish it was possible to have a more stout trans for the Mazda.
Both for the F2T FWD and RWD.
Guess its just wishfull thinking! LOL

 

Mazda I think were aiming for low weight, I remember their brochure for the GC 626 stated that the transaxle at 41kg was the lightest in its class.

Knowing how those things work, it was probably the 4 speed manual G series box, that was weighed for the brochure!

Its always the age old argument, as a manufacturer how much do you over engineer things ? at the time when the G series box was built the biggest engine was 2 litres, and NA. By the time the F2T came along Mazda reaslised that they needed a larger box to handle the torque....but as its the only model ever to have it fitted (apart from the V6 1G probe) It would have been a costly exercise to re tool the production lines for just one model.

Toyota on the other hand had a much greater range of models, it would have been easier to justify more models of gearboxes.

I think the non use of steel bearing plate by mazda was a big oversight. for little extra weight it probably makes enough of a difference to warrant it.

Even mitsubishi gearboxes from NA 4 cylinders around the same era had a steel bearing plate in their gearboxes.

But there is another school of thought, who is going to split the casing with 145hp.

It wasnt until Mazda started rallying their 323 GTR that they probably figured out all the issues, by then it was too late. around the same time toyota was rallying the St185/St205, with gearboxes almost identical to the camry/solara box.

With regards to weight, I am pretty sure I dug up the weight figure for the E58, it was 53kg. I can put mine on the scales and see if it compares. The Camry box is wide gear compared to the E58 which is narrow. I would expect another 5-8kg for the extra case length, gear width etc.

 

eh? whoa there...I just wanted to know how much the toyo box weighed.

I didnt have any thoughts on the matter as to whats better than what, or what one needs for whatever amount of power. The mention of "light" was in terms of weight not strength (IE: the H-box is heavy, how much heavier is the toyo box?).

Thats all

Gavin

 

the toyota box is not much heavier. Simple answer there. 5-15Kg depending on spec. including the 4WD versions.


but just on that point of desgin - Cheif Tool
the H box is still quite large. Even a G series. - in perspective. Gearboxs put behind some V8's in This country (AUS) the internals and overall size of some 5 speed's ain't much bigger. Had to handle more torque and power.

In perspective - they are desgin to handle factory outputs only - NOT above factory outputs. Or abuse etc.

 

interesting info about the 4wd boxes Rod

 

On the subject of box vs box. I have some photos around of my skyline box next to my ute box, the smaller stock one, and they are SO similar in size that you'd think they'd handle much the same abuse - except they don't. Why : ally bearing carrier and thinner shafts/wider bearing spacing. That simple.

 

I've heard you like big box Fred......

 

doesn't everybody, can handle more abuse

 

the gt4 box has the 3rd/4th shift hub oil squirters factory.
everyone i know that works on these boxes has had to make a puller for 5th gear.

 

what is the shift fork in the gt4 boxs made off??? and i can buy a puller but it is $230 and i dnt c the point hahahah